FRACTALS please!!! :)
StevieJ
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Since we're getting into math.....  How about covering these fractal types first.....then maybe user-defined math input..... 
http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/...types.html Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: April 14, 2010 4:03 pm | ||||||||||
Kraellin
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eeeewwww! too much math for me!  can we just have fractals without having to know the math?  If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!
Craig |
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| Posted: April 14, 2010 6:10 pm | ||||||||||
KGtheway2B
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I doubt the framework released in stage 3 has the capacity for imaginary numbers.
Why is there a demand for fractals? You can use other software such as: http://www.apophysis.org/ to get pretty results fairly easily. Either that, or I'm not fully understanding the request. How exactly should FF handle these fractals? Maybe a mockup component would make more sense. |
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| Posted: April 14, 2010 7:57 pm | ||||||||||
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StevieJ
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if ever implemented, they would most likely be pre-defined types.....but I'm hoping for the ability to input our own formulas.....
I don't understand??? The numbers/formulas map patterns in either a 2D or 3D grid....(x,y) or (x,y,z) coordinate system.....
easily create endless complex patterns for art and textures that are either impossible or a complete nightmare to create with FF (notice what it took to try and create even a simple rudementary fractal with FF).....manipulate current noise to create all other noise patterns.....etc....
I currently use that program for atistic works.....but not easy to create patterns with it..... Vlad previously stated that he wanted to implement fractals.....but they were running into tilabilty problems with them..... Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: April 14, 2010 11:26 pm | ||||||||||
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StevieJ
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I created the following works with Apophysis (fractal program) and a couple super-secret StevieJ filters.....  Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: April 14, 2010 11:39 pm | ||||||||||
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StevieJ
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.....and another with Apophysis and some of my FF filter concoctions..... Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: April 14, 2010 11:43 pm | ||||||||||
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Kraellin
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steve is quite right about fractals. there are just some things that are almost impossible to do with FF. fractals is almost like the quantum theory of graphics, but its application is far more reaching than just in graphics. your cell phone wouldnt work without fractals, for instance. the antenna was derived from fractal mathematics. figuring the actual length of the distance of a coastline is a fractal problem. plants grow pretty much fractally. imagine what we could do with the creation of objects and patterns with fractals. it's actually a much broader field and has a far more reaching application in the real world than most know. programs like apophysis are cool, but quite limited to most of us, unless you've truly studied the reiterative, looping properties of fractal sets. mandlebrot was a genius and most folks thought he was kinda crazy when he started talking about fractals. lol. aint that always the way?
at any rate, fractals could very easily open up a whole new world in FF and i whole-heartedly agree with steve on this one. i doubt we'll see any of it until at least ver. 3 or maybe even 4, but i think it truly belongs with FF. the potential is just too great to ignore. If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!
Craig |
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| Posted: April 15, 2010 5:10 pm | ||||||||||
ronjonnie
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Hey Steve, Craig,
Cool Steve!! I LOVE Fractials!!!! These are a different type. Have a good evening. 
Ron http://www.filterforge.com/filters/7393.html http://www.filterforge.com/filters/7386.html zazzle.com/Ronspassionfordesign*
So much to learn, so little time. |
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| Posted: April 15, 2010 5:44 pm | ||||||||||
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StevieJ
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Exactly.....all natures' patterns.....crystaline formation patterns.....leaf patterns.....etc.....endless patterns that are literally impossible to create with FF.....but if FF had them, the sky would be the limit and everything would be possible.....not to mention fast.....
Hey Craig, that was pretty supportive of you.....so I guess we can be friends again..... LOL..... J/K bubba.....
Ron, are you plugging your filters again??? Those are cool!!!  Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: April 15, 2010 10:21 pm | ||||||||||
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KGtheway2B
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From your link in the first post:
Nearly all of these fractals seem to involve complex numbers, something FF doesn't handle currently (and honestly, doesn't really need to imo... using these functions in a graphics environment is already over my head). This is evidenced by the "error" seen when trying to square root a negative number, something that would typically bring results in the imaginary domain. Also keep in mind, most of the "pretty" fractals seen with colors are implementing something beyond the simpler fractal math. iirc, the colors correspond to some sort of complex probability thing, so be sure to be specific, else be disappointed when you are stuck with a black and white mandelbrot set. Getting back to a desired implementation, what would a "fractal" component look like, what would its inputs be and how might it fit into the FF workflow? Answering questions like these seem to gain a lot more validity when compared to requests that simply saying: "lets add fractals!" without any further explanation. Sqrt Neg 4.ffxml |
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| Posted: April 16, 2010 12:17 am | ||||||||||
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StevieJ
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I don't know why FF couldn't handle complex numbers.....already doing it in component image processing.....
I don't know how Vlad would choose to implement them.....but I would guess a single fractal external input component connected to a fractal workshop/explorer environment.....where the "math" would just be proprietary to creating the fractal image for input to the filter.....and in profile gradient/greyscale color to allow colorization thru the existing color gradient components..... Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: April 16, 2010 12:55 am | ||||||||||
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KGtheway2B
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When I say complex numbers I'm referring to a mathematical thing, the symbol "i" is used to represent the square root of -1.
Taking the square root of a negative number doesn't make any sense (because any negative number multiplied by itself is automatically positive) so mathematicians came up with imaginary numbers. As it turns out, they proved to be immensely important in electronics and our modern electronic world wouldn't function without using complex numbers in designing things. When you combine imaginary numbers with real numbers, you call them complex numbers. Annnyway, It sounds like you want more of an "iteration" functionality than you want a true mathematical fractal generator. I would be very surprised if nobody in this community is able to construct something that has the "branching" you desire. |
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| Posted: April 16, 2010 1:30 am | ||||||||||
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StevieJ
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If you mean constructing, importing, and applying a tilable fractal pattern.....then yes!!!
The formulas for fractals are given.....but what I think you are saying is how FF would program/set up the "generator" to create fractal images for import..... Like I said.....I would think that it would have to be a seperate environment by which to create the fractal image.....then import with a single external fractal image component..... I would be curious to hear from Vlad to how he was/is thinking about doing it??? Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: April 16, 2010 1:39 pm | ||||||||||
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StevieJ
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My main intention is to use fractals in an artistic manner....then secondary for creating "nature" and unique patterns. Just imagine trying to create something like this without the use of fractals in FF.....totally impossible..... Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: April 16, 2010 1:55 pm | ||||||||||
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StevieJ
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.....or try creating something like this simple fractal pattern with FF.....total nightmare..... Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: April 16, 2010 2:19 pm | ||||||||||
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StevieJ
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Here are some examples of what you could create if fractals were implemented into FF.....and they can be tilable..... Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: April 16, 2010 2:23 pm | ||||||||||
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StevieJ
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.....another..... Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: April 16, 2010 2:24 pm | ||||||||||
meyendlesss
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I use Apophysis sometimes... either alone, or with Flam4 to render.
I'd love to be able to do the same kind of things with FF. Some of it may be possible, but it's beyond me right now...  |
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| Posted: April 16, 2010 2:24 pm | ||||||||||
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StevieJ
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.....and another..... Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: April 16, 2010 2:25 pm | ||||||||||
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StevieJ
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.....and yet another.....  Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: April 16, 2010 2:27 pm | ||||||||||
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meyendlesss
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Great stuff, Steve!
What software did you use? Hope you don't mind me posting a couple too.  |
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| Posted: April 16, 2010 2:38 pm | ||||||||||
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meyendlesss
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one more... |
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| Posted: April 16, 2010 2:39 pm | ||||||||||
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StevieJ
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Hey Tom Waiting to hear back from you about that thing..... Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: April 16, 2010 2:41 pm | ||||||||||
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StevieJ
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Wouldn't it be nice to be able to create things like this with FF.....  .....  Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: April 16, 2010 3:02 pm | ||||||||||
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StevieJ
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Paisley patterns are fractal patterns.....impossible in FF.....but just think of all the fabric, lace, and neckties that FF could make if it had fractals.....  Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: April 16, 2010 3:20 pm | ||||||||||
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ronjonnie
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OK! Where did you guys get my filters??
I haven't even posted them yet! lol..
Have a good evening.
Ron zazzle.com/Ronspassionfordesign*
So much to learn, so little time. |
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| Posted: April 16, 2010 3:45 pm | ||||||||||
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meyendlesss
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Here's one more from Apophysis... FF was used to make the colour gradient.  |
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| Posted: April 16, 2010 10:07 pm | ||||||||||
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Kraellin
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that's brilliant, meye. love it If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!
Craig |
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| Posted: April 18, 2010 12:35 pm | ||||||||||
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ronjonnie
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Hey T.L.
Yes! I like that one, very NICE!
Have a GREAT day!
Ron zazzle.com/Ronspassionfordesign*
So much to learn, so little time. |
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| Posted: April 18, 2010 12:43 pm | ||||||||||
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Kraellin
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steve, you did all those with apophysis? love the colored, clustered 'weed' one. If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!
Craig |
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| Posted: April 18, 2010 2:01 pm | ||||||||||
SpaceRay
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StevieJ very beautiful and excellent examples you have put here in this thread.
What software have you used to make this nice images ? As you say it it would be really nice and wonderful to create things like this inside FF |
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| Posted: November 11, 2011 12:11 am | ||||||||||
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