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Sculpty Hemisphere on Plane by Romaq

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Romaq
Posts: 31
Filters: 1
Sculpty Hemisphere on Plane by Romaq
http://www.filterforge.com/filters/10254.html

Image
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Romaq
Posts: 31
Filters: 1
This is my first filter submission, to be used as a Second Life sculpty. I need to update it for better variants, but alas I am still learning. Remember of course to save your image in 64 x 64 pixel as either a .tga or .png to upload directly into SL. As I learn more, I will update this filter to create various sculpties.
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Morgantao
Can't script

Posts: 2185
Filters: 20
Can you please show us how this would look like in SL?
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Romaq
Posts: 31
Filters: 1
Image

Sorry, I finally made the above image. I hope to work out better control over how to make FilterForge produce sculpties. If I'm able to work out the details, I would love to have FilterForge create the basic shapes and then be able to produce both the sculpty and the texture map off the same filter settings. It looks like I would have to use a toggle switch, so one setting is your texture and the other is your sculpty map. The map itself, of course, would have to be resized. But it would be wonderful to bumps in the sculpty reflected in the texture generation.

I am also turning some of the SL bump maps into FF textures. The SL bump maps are everything short of perfectly useless. You can't add your own sane bump maps. Linden Labs also 'forgot' to provide really useful textures, even as a starting point where you can make use of the bump maps. If they are going to offer a petri dish, bark, gravel and concrete bump maps, why in hell are they not offering textures made to match? So... I'm working out details of having it so you load a bump map with FilterForge, then you can create matching textures to suit you.

If this is of interest to you, please let me know. The down side to this is that FilterForge won't let me submit the intended bump map as a starting point. However, I can see that I can add the bump map here for you to use as your blank as well as the intended result.

I also need better control over how 'variations' produce results. None of the auto-created variations are useful.

Anyway, if this is something you think will be useful please let me know, as well as what would make this filter a better FF library filter as a starting point. I keep pushing Second Life crafters to FF, and perhaps people will get enough use out of this that they'll want to buy FF for their work too! smile:)
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Morgantao
Can't script

Posts: 2185
Filters: 20
I have never endered SL, so I have no real clue what you are talking about smile:D
I just hoped that seeing the sculpty would halp me understand how the filter "works".
There was another sculpty thread out there, so I thought seeing a before\after of one would help me understand them. I was wrong smile:D
I just can't get my brain to "see" the colors as X,Y,Z coordinates...
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infiniview
digital artist

Posts: 202
Filters: 13
It is a good idea. Let us know how it works out.
at least 90 percent of all sensation is texture, even beyond the visual, with elements of noise, tone, gradients, interval and degree.
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Romaq
Posts: 31
Filters: 1
The primary issue with a sculpty is that it is somewhere between difficult to impossible to 'see' the colors and then have any idea of what the resulting shape would be. Many sculpty artists who charge for their texture will use an alpha layer as an attempt to 'mask' the filter from being stolen, though if someone wants to steal textures or sculpties, it is a relatively simple process to use GLIntercept to rip the sculpty map, alpha and all simply by viewing objects other people have created.

You can think of a sculpty as a "texture normal for a point in space" instead of a normal map applied to an object. Just looking at a normal map doesn't really help most people to understand them until they have to actually work with normal maps. Unless you have a particular use for them, sculpties are not going to be particularly useful for you. And I don't believe you'll have much use for them outside of SecondLife, InWorldz, OpenSimGrid or other such.

In any case, yeah... I need to publish what it looks like in 3-space, but I didn't know how 'comments' worked at the time, or even how it was set up. I do need to learn the things I mentioned in my prior post. As people express an interest in using the filter I'll take more an interest in exploring this line. It is definitely off the beaten path from most FilterForge filters.
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Mongoose King
Mongoose King

Posts: 248
Filters: 20
With a plane arrangement, if you know in advance it is a plane then it's basicly, more blue = more height. I've done a fair bit of work with sculpties in SL and it is possible to tell with the less complex ones what sort of shape they will be from the image sometimes.

I made a sculpty plane maker a long time ago that made pieces of terrain type 3D shapes with a matching texture.

I never submitted it because I didn't think there would be many people interested in it. I might submit it tho if people want to try it.

Release the Mongoose!
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Romaq
Posts: 31
Filters: 1
Actually, what I would look for is not 'just a plane maker', but a shape maker that also creates a matching texture. So suppose in your image there it didn't just make a sculpty, but it made a proper rock texture with peaks and such? Of course, it would *have* to have a switch to go between sculpty and texture, and it would also *have* to have the sculpty scaled to 64x64.

But I intended at some point to make something exactly that.

Bonus points for having the sculpty maker make the basic cylinder, torus and other shapes *AND* matching texture map with settings for deformations. smile:)
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Mongoose King
Mongoose King

Posts: 248
Filters: 20
I think that I could probably figure a way to make a bumpy sphere shape, there is a spherical noise snippet to do the bumps, and what you'd have to do is either construct the basic sphere map using gradients, or there is a way to store pixel images in scripts.

What you could do then is, have a map for a maximum sized sphere, and one for a shrunk down sphere, and Put one into the background of the noise, and one into foreground. then you'd end up with a lumpy sphere with the max being the outside spher and the min being the inside one.

It would be possible to do similar for a torus or a cylinder, tho, a bit harder to get it right
Release the Mongoose!
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Romaq
Posts: 31
Filters: 1
A beautiful goal would be creating a sphere entirely from procedural math. SculptyPaint http://elout.home.xs4all.nl/sculptpaint/ neatly creates a sphere, a torus and a cylinder.

The square plane is all too simple... make a profile for red, flip 90 deg. for green, set blue at 0x808080h. Done. The sphere may be the next most simple to make procedurally, followed very closely by the torus. Of course, 'simple' does not necessarily mean 'easy'. You need to have a half of a square do a very smooth gradient from the edge at 0x808080h blend to a 2:1 circle (oval) shape within some fairly precise math, but it is a 'math problem', and perhaps someone on the board can answer the question of 'how' once the problem is correctly stated. Often, once you peg the red channel you simply flip the image 90 deg. or shift and wrap the red channel about the x-axis and use that for one of the other channels.

My message on http://www.filterforge.com/forum/read...sage100588 is an exercise of that sort of math. I can tell you that to find the color value for the top left corner pixel of the red channel is based on the sin of a triangle ... well, I describe that in the filter request. But moving away from the corners or centers of the red channel, I'm at a loss both to tell you explicitly what value the pixel should be by calculation, nor even if I knew how to calculate the value, I don't know how to tell Filter Forge to put that value there. It's a smooth gradient from specific calculated control points, oval 'shaped' on the inside to explicitly flat on the outside. Without the control to blend a gradient between oval and polygonal, I'm stumped.

I think correctly formed curves into several combined profiles may do this, I'm not clear how. Use the tangent function so your gradient curve approaches infinity, and thus the edge? Why bother taking calculus in school? Not like you'd ever use it. Damnit! I know enough to know I don't know anything.

Anyway, SculptyPaint has basic shapes you may choose, and then you can look at the shapes in separate RGB panels in the RGB edit mode. I see gradient curves that flatten to edges at specific target points. I see 'math'. I also very clearly see I've not a clue on how to go about it. But I'm certain SculptyPaint is NOT doing anything that I would expect to be all that complex for FilterForge in the creation of the sculpty. And it would be a hoot to have FilterForge make the relatively simple forms procedurally, procedurally deform them, and then use the same functions to create the texture map that reflects the deformations.

If that could be done well, I think you'd really have a hook for sculpty artists looking for an easier way to go about their craft.
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Morgantao
Can't script

Posts: 2185
Filters: 20
Quote
Mongoose King wrote:
With a plane arrangement, if you know in advance it is a plane then it's basicly, more blue = more height.


Yeah, when you have a plane with a sphere, or even your terrain, it's easy for me to see the result, as if I'm looking at a grayscale height map. smile:)
It's the whole X,Y\Red,Green corners that gives me the chills... smile:D
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Mongoose King
Mongoose King

Posts: 248
Filters: 20
Sphere from gradients....

Just need to figure the right curve for the gradients, which should be fairly simple.

To make the sphere smaller you simply blend with 50% grey all over, which should uniformly shrink it towards a singularity in the centre of the unit cube.

Release the Mongoose!
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Romaq
Posts: 31
Filters: 1
Yeah, it's the bottom, left side of that equation that gives me headaches. smile:(

The gradients have to be on a sine pattern, and THAT only provide curve in the up/down, left-right direction. They have to be 'sine' at all the angles too, and I'm not clear on how to accomplish that one at all. smile:(
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Mongoose King
Mongoose King

Posts: 248
Filters: 20
This filter shows how to store an image in a script, so even if we couldn't do it easily with gradients, it would be possible to store the correct starting shapes for Sphere, Torus, Cylinder, Cube, etc and then distort from them...

The images only need to actually be 32*32 pixels, so not too much to store.

http://www.filterforge.com/filters/8796.html
Release the Mongoose!
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Romaq
Posts: 31
Filters: 1
True, though the bear 'blew up', something went wrong with the processing so the top image fails halfway down, and sometimes does not come up. Some of the variants images work, some don't. But I get the idea.

Still, it would be much faster and far more flexible to have a gradient... I think I figured out the correct question to ask, so I'll make a forum post just for that. The question: How do I create a smooth gradient between a point at 0x000000h and a box outline of 0x808080h. I think I might have the answer to my own question. I'm going to try it out. If I can't get the result I'm expecting, I'll make a forum post showing my failed attempt, then ask them how to do this correctly. A 32^2 'stored script image' is ok, but 'profile 1 + profile 2 = expected result' is far more flexible and much, much more desirable if we can swing it. I'll edit this post if I turn up a result that makes sense to me, or where I posted my help request if I get a fail.

--EDIT--

Fail. http://www.filterforge.com/forum/read...sage100871 is the message I posted showing the goal as well as just the red channel gradient. Perhaps someone will have an idea?
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