Author Poll: Royalty Texture Packs

I probably wouldn't participate. I make textures as I need them for my own 3D work.
Putting them up for sale would not result in significant revenue, and if they're the same textures I used for my own work, and if they happen to be good, there's a potential of them getting overused, and then my own product runs a risk of becoming a run of the mill 'look' that people already got bored of.

Personally, I wouldn't have time to try and generate the volume of filters that would make it wirth while.

For someone else, this may be a very interesting idea

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Conniekat8 wrote: Steve, that's an excellent idea!!! I would most certainly participate and try to take advantage of it!!!

Great Connie!!! ..... LMAO......

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Kraellin wrote: i'd probably do it, somewhat depending on the terms of the agreement, but yes, i'd say this would be a nice 'reward' system.

Vlad, an "endorsement" from Mr. FF himself.....so it definitely should be done!!! ...... LOL....

Craig, glad we are on the same page about this one.....

Where's Dilla??? LOL.....

I'm not sure I would attempt to sell filters (mostly because what I do is derivitive work from the great material you folks have presented).

But I'd be likely to purchase good sets.

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Redcap wrote: I am a teacher and would love some supplementary income, no matter how meager.

That's how I think most authors would feel about it.....because in most cases, if authors had the money and weighed the "time is money" formula to get the HUs for the free copy, they would just buy the program without making any filters.....

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GM Syndicate wrote: But I'd be likely to purchase good sets.

Good to hear that!!!

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Carl wrote: Maybe other poll questions should be - are you interested in purchasing textures and what would they feel is a fair price

I suppose it would depend on how elaborate (number, resolution, variation types, etc.) the sets are.....but in general, I was matching or going less than the prices that are being asked for FF sets being sold at Renderosity.....

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StevieJ wrote: I suppose it would depend on how elaborate (number, resolution, variation types, etc.) the sets are.....but in general, I was matching or going less than the prices that are being asked for FF sets being sold at Renderosity.....

----Not the least bit interested then. Getty prices or bust man, why low-ball ourselves, doesn't that totally miss the point of the filter makers selling their own work ? The only reason they are bargain basement prices on renderosity and wherever is because they are basically stolen, no real work is being done, unless hitting render and waiting 10 minutes for the rip off to render = work.

jffe

***COUGH***

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StevieJ wrote: Personally, from a business point of view, I see this as the only way for FF to kick this program into high gear and take full advantage of everything that can be produced from it..... As it stands.....the general trend here is for authors to come in to get the copy rewards that they want.....and then leave once they get them. To me, it's like a company who invests in training it's employees to learn the business.....does nothing to keep them once they have learned it.....and just lets them go and take their skills to greener pastures working for another company..... To me, the current approach is mostly working to limit filter quality by keeping it confined to an entry level rotation cycle of authors who are learning the program from scratch.....instead of providing the incentives to build upon authors who have become very skilled with the program..... So in conclusion I think if FF did something like this.....that got authors to come in, stay on, and approach it like they could set up a business here making filters to sell texture packs for royalties.....this program would become much more successful in every possible way.....

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jffe wrote: My take on the liklihood of it hasn't changed, nil to zero. How long has it taken FF to work adding a couple lines to their Eula

I would have to agree with that.....it does seem to reflect a definite lack of resources behind the scenes here.....which is probably resultant of a small group of people working together behind Vlad's brainchild.....and this really being in its' infancy.....

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jffe wrote: it won't change anything, it'll just have more pointless warnings : don't steal the filters as-is and just render them, or else we'll email renderosity and you'll have to open a new account and start selling them under that name etc.

Well, my whole point behind this is to allow authors the means to take advantage of the new EULA copyright restictions.....provide incentives for authors to continuously submit quality texture filters.....and give them the means and motivation to protect them at those other sites.....so authors can feel "warm and fuzzy" about submitting them in the first place.....

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jffe wrote: it's a moot point man, and I honestly don't expect FF to jump into a whole new world and try and help us sell renders, that just has so little to do with them, their expertise, and selling their product.

That could be true and the way that they are thinking about it right now.....but with the way things have been going around here, I believe that they are going to start seeing the benefits of considering a path like this.....

I personally don't think it would be that difficult to set something like this up......considering that they could incorporate it with their plan to create individual gallery links that will turn each filter into its' own little website......

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Crapadilla wrote: when it comes to providing incentives for authors that already have 8+ HU, it becomes another story entirely!

That's exactly what I'm talking about.....authors would have to get the 8 HUs for the lifetime upgrades reward "before" they are allowed to start selling texture packs.....which would put some serious new incentive on getting those first 8 HUs to get to the "show me the money" rewards of starting to sell texture packs (with newly tangible copyrights from the proposed EULA) from their filters, eh???

I also think this would guarrantee that authors would be well-versed with the program and have a good understanding of what users are looking for before they are allowed to start selling texture packs.....and act as a "filter" preventing people from just coming in and just throwing crap up against the wall to see what sticks.....whick would hurt the "level of quality" in texture filters and offered texture packs here.....

The 10 million dollar question is.....would you step-up your texture efforts and try to take advantage of it??? I know that FF would love nothing more than to see you (and authors like you) contributing as much as possible here.....

Ack???

Really??? I'm very surprised......because it wouldn't take much extra effort to render results and put a texture pack together in comparison to what it takes to make a quality texture filter.....and I would think it would certainly qualify under "milking a filter for all it's worth", eh???

Personally, I've already got tons of them made for my own work and I'm making new ones all the time.....so why not when the extra return would more than justify the time needed to render and put them together.....and at the same time, help perpetuate the success of this program for my own use.....

I may be wrong.....but I can't imagine you sitting on the sidelines if something like this started to take off.....and I would be willing to bet that you would step in and show everyone how it's done..... Hey, you wouldn't let anyone encroach upon your world......errr.....filter domination plans, would you??? LOL......

Just kidding around.....I know that not everyone would take advantage of it......but I am thoroughly convinced that something like this would prove to be very successful here.....

I think it would also provide profitable means for both authors and FF to take advantage of the proposed new EULA restrictions.....and provide solid justification for the implementation of the new EULA restrictions to the graphics market so no one has any reason to frown upon FF for implementing them.....

there is one other problem with this, steve. if you remember this one truism, you get what you reward, you'll see that FF setting up a texture pack sales, doesnt do FF that much good. what FF wants is filters, not textures. yes, good textures and incentives will draw some to buy FF, but not as much as good filters in the library. so, setting up an author storefront for texture sales does help out authors and does help out FF some, but it's the filter use that gets the job done for FF. being able to download, for a price, 5000 textures is nice, but that's going to draw texture USERS more than texture MAKERS.

so, i'm all in favor of doing the texture storefronts. that's good, but you still need to address texture making where it will benefit FF. the 8 point incentive we have currently does that nicely, especially for the poor starving artist type. but what is needed still is that 9, 10, 11, 12, infinite texture making incentive. and that's why i liked Fred's dual library idea. it encouraged and rewarded filter making, not just texture making. everyone won that way.

and there's still that nagging problem of grandfathered filters. every copy of FF sold has, potentially, ALL of the existing filters fathered under the original eula. so, the new eula isnt going to render that old contract obsolete. sure, you can write in that now all filters are covered by the new eula and anyone buying and using filters from the library will be covered under that, but there's still a large group out there that wont be bound to that, unless maybe they upgrade FF. it's like a house and code. your house can not be up to code but they cant make you do anything about it, but as soon as something breaks that requires a contractor, you have to bring it up to code. and that may be the long term solution to all this. you simply require that anyone upgrading FF now agree to the new eula or they cant upgrade. that's the only way i see of doing it. and there will always be those that wont or that will simply buy a new license and keep the old eula version on one machine and the new, upgraded version on another. lol. i'm getting as cynical as jffe here

I do understand that.....and I do want to see the program enhanced with all those new goodies as well.....

My business sense is kinda bothered by the trend of what seems to have been going on here over recent months.....almost a complete drop-off in quality filter submissions......hardly any new authors.....and an obvious slump in program sales.....

I personally feel, after being here for the past year, that author activity directly reflects sales activity.....and I would even go so far as to say that it is actually dictating it. When author activity is up and there are all kinds of quality filter submissions, sales seem to be up.....and when author activity is down, sales seem to slump. Therefore, I don't think program enhancements or expanding to the Mac platform will do anything towards sales in comparison to creating an author "fervor" in the graphics market.....

So I think FF should temporarily drop it's enhancement efforts.....focus its' energy on creating some new author incentives with something like this.....and then use the increased sales profits to more quickly and effectively implement the program enhancements.....starting by addressing the resource leak problem that is now negatively proceeding the program as being unstable in the graphics market.....

DISCLAIMER: I say these things with nothing but love in my heart for this program.....and wanting to see it be very successful!!!

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Kraellin wrote: setting up a texture pack sales, doesnt do FF that much good.

I would think that splitting texture pack sales with authors would bring FF alot of extra profit.....as well as bringing in potential customers to purchase the program. The big difference between purchasing textures and the program is that texture pack purchasers would also be buying the result copyrights made tangible by the proposed new EULA.....

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Kraellin wrote: what FF wants is filters, not textures.

I don't know.....Vlad seems to be all about fostering tilable textures here.....and this would play right into it.....

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Kraellin wrote: going to draw texture USERS more than texture MAKERS.

I think it would draw in alot more of both....

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Kraellin wrote: i'm getting as cynical as jffe here

Nooooooooooooooo!!! Stay with me, bubba.... LOL....

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Conniekat8 wrote: If I had time and inclination to be in a business of selling textures, I'd already be doing it elsewhere.

I'm thinking that there are many who would be inclined to participate in it if they were given an easy way to do it.....instead of having to set up their own website, etc.....

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Conniekat8 wrote: there's a pricing dilemma too. To make texture packs worth while, they'd have to be sold at a fairly decent price (definately not at pennies per texture), more like few dollars per texture. Let's say they are sold at 3 dollars per texture. That means a texture pack of a 100 textures, which isn't a very big pack, would have to be sold at $200-$300. Take that compared to the price of pro version of FF, and it's a no brainer, you buy the program, not the textures.

I think the elaborateness of what authors put into them (number, resolutions, variation types, etc.) will pretty much dictate what they can be sold for a similar price to what other sites are selling them for.....

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StevieJ wrote: I think the elaborateness of what authors put into them (number, resolutions, variation types, etc.) will pretty much dictate what they can be sold for a similar price to what other sites are selling them for.....

On renderosity, you can get a pack of 30-40 1600x1600 textures made with most popular filters from here, being sold for 5-6 dollars a pack. Those guys aren't exactly selling tens of thousands of textures a month. Few hundred dollars at best. This is with Renderosity having almost half a milion users.
I think you have run of the mill large audiences that have been trained in getting a lot for free or very little.

Most professional outfits, whom want something more unique will buy the program to make their own.

You're left with marketing to mid range audiences, similar to the tipe SignGuy is marketing to. There's a lot of advertising dollars involved inreaching those, unless, Like the Sign guy, you're already known to them, and can capitalize on that.
An unknown entity, like FF may be to Sign Guy's audiences will have to spend a lot of money and effort advertizing to become known.

Anyway, I'm not trying to rain on your parade, I'm talking out loud about considerations that a business has to go through when they are deciding whether a new line is worth while getting into or not.

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Conniekat8 wrote: On renderosity, you can get a pack of 30-40 1600x1600 textures made with most popular filters from here, being sold for 5-6 dollars a pack.

I think it work even at those prices.....and why let any amount of money change hands over there when it could be done here.....and used to benefit both FF and authors???

I also think that texture packs could be done alot better here than they are being done over there......so more money could be asked for them.....

Then there is the issue of the new EULA restrictions which are going to put a stop to (most) FF textures being sold at other popular sites (unless an author stipulates that there are no usage restrictions on the results of their filters). When that happens, FF would be in perfect position to start taking advantage of it here......

When you look at texture pack sales in general from all sites that sell them, it's big business.....and it doesn't make any business sense to be self-limitting and let everyone else make money off of things that are being produced here.....

Connie and Genie, I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you guys..... This idea might start out slow (obvoiusly from not having a big selection at first).....but I'm convinced that this would rejuvinate participation from senior authors here who have become very skilled with the program.....as well as bring in droves of new authors to try and take advantage of it.....who would put in a much more serious effort to get the first 8 HUs in order to get to the $$$ texture pack reward level.....

The competitive nature of this would certainly drive authors to create new and better texture filters to get the texture pack sales.....and as the number, variety, and quality of texture packs grows, so would the sales.....and eventually this would become the first stop for customers who are looking for "restriction-free" texture packs.....

If FF was ever to do this, I would be one of the first ones to try and take advantage of it.....and I'm not the only "old-timer" here who feels this way about it.....

*** insert sounds of programmers typing madly.....and Vlad cracking a whip....."StevieJ is a frick'n genius!!! Let's move on this!!! Yee-Ha!!!" ***

.....

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StevieJ wrote: If FF was ever to do this, I would be one of the first ones to try and take advantage of it.....and I'm not the only "old-timer" here who feels this way about it.....

----If the original cost of the textures was high enough, and the split was good, then I'd be as all over it as Stevie or anyone. It's not going to happen though. And ya know Stevie, with the time you've spent promoting the idea here, you could have 1/4 of the website to do it built by now ha-ha

jffe

watch the generalities, connie, some actually have been accepted by sign guy

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Conniekat8 wrote: I mean, if Texture selling is so profitable, why aren't people clamoring to work with the Sign Guy? He's complaining he's been offering to buy filters or textures or something to that effect, and noone is responding! What's up with that?

----Like most business situations, it's mostly profitable at the top. And Fred already makes plenty of money, so he's in no position to spend all that much to aquire new material thusly he can pay bottom dollar and get the best of the best, just the way it is in a "free market". Ultimately, he didn't offer me enough, and I assume he moved on to cheaper and greener pastures, such is business. I could go into detail and say I felt him (and it's not just Fred, it's any biz situation like that) making XX times what I would off of it, wasn't something I wanted to support, and I made that choice knowing full well that he might very well have made me more money regardless just because he can sell more at his industries rather high prices. I just can't see signing away work for pennies on the dollar, maybe if I could produce an airplane hangar's full a year, then it wouldn't matter so much, I could make it up in quantity eh. It should be noted, that Fred wants very specific filters, and I found myself not caring overly much for those styles, while someone like Constantin seems to have been born (or at least showed up here ha-ha) already doing those styles better than most. Anyways, this all wasn't meant to make Fred look bad at all, I may ask him to be a reseller for me later on and would hate to think that spelling out some factual reasons why working with/for him might not work for someone (and didn't for me) would ruin that. If you Google "sign graphics" and whatnot, you will see what Fred wants, diamond plates, flames, and umm, "gold leaf" come to mind. If you can do those better than are in the FF library, get with Fred, he might be able to make you an offer you won't want to refuse.

jffe

No offense to Fred, but I think jffe pretty much has it right to why he was not getting "his" desired response.....

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Carl wrote: If this happened and there was no cost to the authors but a commission, I don't know why alot of people wouldn't take advantage [ especially at only 33 and third percent commission ] of another income stream, be it small or large

----If I could get 1/3 of the sales on a Dvd of graphics that someone like Fred was selling, I'd be sending him b-day AND x-mas cards ha-ha, ie = good luck. No that anyone asked, or cares, and please, as if this was bragging with these numbers ha-ha. My last big name product that sold on shelves was for $39.99 (MSRP $49.99), I got $2.25 per copy. And $39.99 was at least the U.S. retail standard, so that's 5.6%, and in fractions, that's what just under an 1/18th ? Retail is like that though, sh*t ya lose half JUST to the stores that sell it to get it on a shelf, and that's if gawd really, REALLY likes you, and pulls some strings and calls in some favors and grants you an audience with a clueless grown up, so you can maybe sell your soul to get a shelf/boxed product actually out there ha-ha. Ideally, that gets 'made up for' in volume. But lemme tell ya, it = don't always work that way, and *if*, wait, no, BIGGER *IF*, it does, it takes years, y...e...a...r....s....to do so. If Fred wants to sell my graphics for $299, and gimme $99 per dvd sold (and will promote them as-much-as/just-like any new product of his), tell him to message me immediately, I'll block out March for him and get those renders done, or better yet, I'll buy a new dual or quadcore, and have them to him by mid April, with extras.

jffe

Added : Poor Fred ha-ha, he's just a guy who's done the saleswork, I still have nothing really against him for his numbers, he's rough, but he ain't the worst, and I'd bet he can sell some stuff for ya. If/when ya read this Fred, we don't hate ya, yer just the first halfway big timer who's stopped by, so we use you as a baseline is all. Peace in the middle east etc.

If FF was ever to do something like this.....I think a 50/50 split would be the fairest, most mutually-beneficial way to do it. Authors would be making the filters and texture packs.....while FF would be providing the sales mechanisms and marketing for them through the site. Also, from FF's point of view, I would think that the author incentives would be the most important aspect of this.....and you don't want authors to feel that they are being "gouged" by FF. I think the 50/50 split would definitely work to bring droves of new authors in, rejuvinate existing skilled authors, and keep them here participating in a continuous effort to produce quality texture filters towards making mo' $$$.....

If and when this system is ever set up, authors could be given full control over managing it. I think authors would quickly learn what level of quality and the right price to offer them with.....because if they are not selling, then that means an author either needs to improve the pack or lower the price.....

I also think that once a system like this was in place.....the only FF administrative work would be cutting a check for authors.....

Looks like 50/50 the consensus - I don't think it matters as FF as shown no interest in the idea