SpiralGraphics announces Genetica 3.0!

that looks pretty impressive.

They're definitely going for the 'kitchen sink' approach.

What they Genetica has always needed to do though is fix the confusing interface. Even with all the new bells & whistles they may still be missing the big picture.

I appreciate FF making usability and efficiency top priorities. However one may still feel a twinge of jealously watching those videos of the new features on the Genetica site.

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uberzev wrote: What they Genetica has always needed to do though is fix the confusing interface. Even with all the new bells & whistles they may still be missing the big picture.

Agreed. I gave Genetica a test run some time ago but the awful GUI incessantly insisted on getting in my way, preventing me from getting into any sort of creative flow. With FF the opposite is the case: all creation flows easily and intuitively. It's almost as if FF was way too slick to be true in the usability/learnability department, and bordered on being addictive!



Also note how Genetica is now waking up to current trends, getting retrofitted with HDRI capabilities, global illumination, ambient occlusion, etc. Interesting, but it somehow gives off the impression of being a patchworking effort. Features like animation are quite tasty (and really make me wish we already had beta 3.0 at hand), but the 899$ price-tag definitely spoils this dish for me.

Being a Genetica user too, It looks like they've done a lot of listening to their user comments and suggestions. Very refreshing to see.

I'll probably be playing with Genetica while FF filters are being recycled and resubmitted.

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StevieJ wrote: FF V2 will make G3 look like a wart on a tic's arse.....right Vlad???

Yea, right after the EULA changes take place

Nah, I'll just do what majority is doing. Take what's here for the taking, and spend my good will and enthusiasam elsewhere.

I guess the big difference is they're created in house, they have paid for there creation as part of the cost of the program to produce

I still see Genetica as being mostly a collection of premade filters, and one that is not updated all that often (although their collection is pretty extensive by now I'm sure). As opposed to FF where it's so friendly to use, that I would think a much larger % of people could be into at least altering the filters and/or making their own presets, unlike with Genetica where you have to open to filter up to even change the dang color. On that note, has anyone seen any screenshots (ie = maybe you are a beta tester and show the Gui?) of G3 ? I am of course as curious as anyone what they have done to the interface, in terms of making it more user friendly and improving the workflow.

jffe

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FF V2 will make G3 look like a wart on a tic's arse.....right Vlad???

Imo FF V2 will have to do a lot of things to get there though, saveable parts, module suggestions added etc, non texture tools, thats what geneticas done (well the saving groups thing was there already), currently in genetica i can make a texture as good as any i made in FF about 10 times faster (seriously), why? well because i was able to make a library of useful groups, edge effects noise types, styles, starting textures and so on and all i have to do is drag a few things in and adjust to exactly how i need them, i actually requested this for Filter Forge a while back before i took another look at Gentica and realised it had alot of useful things. I like FF alot but being a user of both thats just how i see things because i havent noticed many new additions in terms of features and new modules etc for FF so thats my hope for V2, saying that though Genetica updates have huge waits, but from what i have been told that will change after the new version and they will be more regular. So yeah i find FF very useful but with this release for genetica all i can say is theres big competition

Next up the texture usage thing, well from what i understand the main amount of them are actually made by the develpors/team and are part of the package or downloadable, this is good because it means that if people decide to take the textures for a ride like they did with FF, it's not the users that are going to have issues and the devs that made them don't mind how they are used, Imo thats what Filter Forge should have done from the start, why? well because the library for FF is basically made by the user base, different users have different views so of course when people find out people are using there hard work and making money by just rendering the textures of course theres going to be unhappy people. Genetica has a forum though and im sure someone posting there that got there work used like they have for FF they may not like it either but its not as big an issue because the main amount of them are made for usage already and alot of shared forum textures are by the devs also. Im sure if lots of people were complaining to Spiral Graphics too they might do a similar EULA thing but imo they did the best choice from the start and avoided the whole problem. Plus with FF (sorry in advance) but i find alot of filters just ok and not always good as there user based so someone thats just made there first filter thinks wow my first filter lets upload it etc and sure theres a ton of filters but you have to pick out the good ones from a huge list sometimes.

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I still see Genetica as being mostly a collection of premade filters, and one that is not updated all that often (although their collection is pretty extensive by now I'm sure). As opposed to FF where it's so friendly to use, that I would think a much larger % of people could be into at least altering the filters and/or making their own presets, unlike with Genetica where you have to open to filter up to even change the dang color. On that note, has anyone seen any screenshots (ie = maybe you are a beta tester and show the Gui?) of G3 ? I am of course as curious as anyone what they have done to the interface, in terms of making it more user friendly and improving the workflow.

That i don't agree with really, there updates not as frequent may be the cause of what your thinking but the forums always have things posted by the devolers and users, i see FF as a collection of filters too so i don't really get that, also in terms of friendly to use the set path thing can be a bit annoying at first but once your past that its simple to make textures also the labs they have are simple and fast to use and not to mention the saveable custom stuff which imo puts gentica a long way in the lead (sorry dedicated FF users), V3 is taking big steps to improve on that also with the browsers for styles and HDRIs etc which will take simplisity to the next level. Theres now maths based curves also which are used for animation but anything you want really so alot more possibillitys are now there along with all the new modules and features. Also they have a new drawing/vector thing almost which looks super easy to use so no need to even import images anymore and on that note Genetica isn't limited to 1 image like FF it can have as many as you want, i have tools in my saved library to make images seamless also so all i have to do to use a photo as a texture is drag a group in. And they havent revealed everything yet as far as i know so no doubt its even easier. I guess everyone has different workflows and I use both apps for various thing but for me Genetica is alot easier to make what i need once i got used to it.

So yeah just speaking my mind again and giving my honest feedback to whats been said in the thread, i used FF a ton to begin with and still use it but im not biased and don't stick to one program all the time, the first time i used Genetica i didn't really get the hang of it but gave it a try again later on and really started liking it as it had benifits over FF like multiple image loading and the savable modules/groups which really started speeding things up for me in terms of working. FF is better for me for image effects but due to the multiple image thing it really depends what im doing i guess but yeah both are great and im interested to see how this new version will effect FF in terms of new stuff as im not really interested in the photoshop/plugin thing. As usual i doubt everyone will agree with me or whatever but the topics here now and comparing the 2 programs personally i feel Genetica has the edge but im interested to see what happens for both apps in the future

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2 issues that come to mind from when I tried Genetica, 1) the preview was small and set, you couldn't zoom in and move it like with FF, and 2) no presets for the filters, a filter was ONE thing, period, until you opened it, edited it, then resaved it. All other things being equal, Genetica 3 will be every bit as good as FF is now I'm sure, probably better in some ways, but it still needs to become more user friendly overall. Oh, and all the buried levels inside the filters has to go, I wanna see everything, ALL of it, at once, or else it's just a headache, plain and simple. I do realize Genetica is just another way of doing the same thing FF does, and all I can really say about it is = user friendliness is worth not having a few features to me. I'm not a hater in that sense, just complaining a bit because I really WANT to like Genetica and get into it, but after using the demo of 2.5 for a couple weeks, I'm still not convinced, and hopefully V3 will sell me on it eh

Yeah i guess i just depends if it appeals to you or not at the end of the day, the preview thing you can right click a section and choose render branch/selection so you can see it large if you want, presets would be cool for sure and im curious to see if anythings done for that, you can of course have folders for presets so you could put variations as saved textures for a workaround but thats not as user friendly as a preset browser i agree. Also the view thing in FF is cool but having it all theres another personal choice i guess i get confused having a massive structure and imo groups like genetica is great for organzation as you can break things down like main noise > color > add depth > add lighting fx etc, which for me things makes things easy because i know where to look when i want to modfiy but having it all there can leave you searching for a bit if theres loads of stuff. I don't think your a hater you just have a certain workflow and FF appeals to you more for that, personally i like having a range of tools for working in music and graphics and both have there uses for sure and are great apps imo.

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Crapadilla wrote: Personally, I utterly dislike Genetica's approach with its "nested groups within nested groups within nested groups", and this is the prime reason I don't use it. See, I like seeing the whole structure of my node-network at a glance

----At least someone else feels this way ha-ha.

jffe

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James wrote: [...] saying you want presets then not liking the labs i don't get it [...]

I was merely arguing that the labs have a potential to be inefficient from an image processing viewpoint, because they come with a lot of baggage that the texture creator might not want to use at all. I do not want pre-made generators (which is what the labs are), I'm saying I want to be able to define my own custom library of functional groups of components for easy drag & drop access.

This is a question of design philosophy really. With FF you're given the most basic building blocks to construct anything you can imagine, but you have to build from the bottom up, as there are no pre-made generators. This is the best solution when it comes to processing efficiency. The pre-made generators (labs) of Genetica however are more geared towards a jack-of-all-trades style user-friendlyness, as they make more complex node-setups readily available, but they certainly appear to be the less flexible solution.

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James wrote: 'Your dice that you had asked for some months ago made it in. Click it to randomize the current selection, whether that be the entire texture or just one part of it. Click Undo then try again if it didn't go in a direction you wanted.'

Will the user be able to define which parameters of a Genetica node will be randomizable? Will one be able to define a set of controls for each texture? Will one have to delve deep into the nested groups of a texture to make that selection? This does all sound inferior to FF's 'black-box' approach, where a user can control a filter 'from the outside' without actually knowing what goes on inside. Remember that you'll have to understand what a filter does in detail in order to know which parameters to tweak, so you'll be in for some studying to achieve your desired changes in the texture. Some users may not want to be bothered with that...

Interesting run-downs on the program differences.....

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jffe wrote: I will of course still complain bitterly

LOL.....

SP is going to offer a beta period for G3 pretty soon.....so we're going to need FF V2 with a second beta period to counter it.....

good question, maybe FF can do a bit of prehype teasers for V2, I know we're all keen to know what is coming and when

what, steve? and not give us a chance to beta whine about it?

Imo V2 will have to be powerful and bring out some features that it doesn't currently have like multiple images, now with Genetica its almost like a complete texture artist/graphics tool and handles animations also and FF will have to do alot to catch up imo, imo being limited to 1 image and various other things make it frustrating to use sometimes depending on what you want to do, as its best area imo is image effects why not have a feature where you save current applyed effect to a buffer/storage/temp and can continue to apply as many fx you want rather than having to export the image and import it over and over. Then theres stuff like grouping for those of us who don't like massive structures and like working in an organized way and saving for quick re-use etc. Because not all of us are here to render and sell other peoples work which it seems like some are, some of us like to make are own stuff and do it in a easy way hehe

Yeah, full control over allowable lighting parameters would rival that.....and be soooooooo sweet!!!

ok, so what's 'IBL' lighting? **grumbles about folks that interject abbreviations and acronyns without explaining them at least once** **throws a rock at steve just for the heck of it**

Just looked at the download page to see what the trial version has/hasn't got unlike Filter forge it has restricted usage by the looks of things. Plus is far more expensive.

Has some nice looking textures but looking at all the ace filters people have made and contributed to FF this one is just as good, minus the animation side of things.

Mind I could be wrong, but then am new to the world of texture filters like these.

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Kraellin wrote: ok, so what's 'IBL' lighting? **grumbles about folks that interject abbreviations and acronyns without explaining them at least once** **throws a rock at steve just for the heck of it**

Sorry Kraelin, with you being one of the high lama filter forger, it never occured to me that you may not know what those acronyms stand for If anything, I thought I'd come across as patronizing if I didn't use them .

Decent explanation of IBL Lighting is here (better then my trying to 'splain) There's also a link to HDRI explanation from that page.IBL on Wikipedia
It's the kind of lighting that FF offers for filters - the half a dozen presets you find in lighting tab in FF.

New genetica has a lab that lets you create your own images to be used to illuminate your texture. They can be made HDRI (high dynamic range images) or just regular images. In very simplified terms, HDRI images give you finer, more complex lighting.

I never checked if the IBL lighting FF uses is also of HDRI nature.

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jffe wrote: ----Huh, I didn't get an email about that, but oh well, I'll wait til it's running stable anyhow

I don't think any emails were sent, People sign up for beta via a link to a form on their forums, then wait to get approved.

thanks, connie just never heard it referred to as IBL before. ... well, that i remember