Use Of Filters?

Hi i was just wondering, as FF is perfect for graphics and theres some very good filters available now what exactly are the restrictions when it comes to using the filters in artwork/graphics projects, say i found a sand texture i liked (i know i have one already but im just saying this for example) made by someone else would i be able to use it as a background to a picture or in a 3d project of mine ect? Or are you only allowed to use your own filters in projects?

Hmm ok, i don't plan on using others work by the way im just curious, im getting ok at making my own stuff, i myself don't have a problem with others using my filters in 3d projects ect but im sure that theres some people who wouldn't want others doing this

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Lucato wrote: you can't do is sell the filter(file) that isn't yours/created by you

Well, the purpose of the Filter Library is quite the opposite -- to provide filters you CAN use, commercially or not. The Upload License includes a clause for that. By submitting a filter to the Library, the author grants us (Filter Forge, Inc.) the right to sublicense the filter to our sub-licensees (Filter Forge users) which we do in the EULA.

So, the short answer is yes, you can use the Filter Library filters for commercial or non-commercial purposes as long as you don't violate the law or someone else's copyrights or other rights or interests (see examples above).

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...This applies to Filter Forge 1.004 or higher (we've removed the restriction on the commercial use of the beta versions in this update).

Great! Thanks a lot Vlad. I think it keeps beta testers more motivated, also they can use FF more and give more feedback for FF Inc.

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Quote Lucato wrote: you can't do is sell the filter(file) that isn't yours/created by you Well, the purpose of the Filter Library is quite the opposite -- to provide filters you CAN use, commercially or not. The Upload License includes a clause for that. By submitting a filter to the Library, the author grants us (Filter Forge, Inc.) the right to sublicense the filter to our sub-licensees (Filter Forge users) which we do in the EULA. So, the short answer is yes, you can use the Filter Library filters for commercial or non-commercial purposes as long as you don't violate the law or someone else's copyrights or other rights or interests (see examples above).

Hey Vlad, this is not a complain, just my point of view and I'm not sure if I quite understood. I thought that wasn't allowed. Ok, I agree sublicense by using for commercial, but as a part of the image and 3d scene. I mean, in my view, I think it isn't fair to get a file from sobebody else and sell it. As an example, let's suppose I get the file from Angelboii (Floor Metal Plate 01) and render it as high-resolution and sell it as royalty-free or managed image like it was mine or even sell his .xml file and make money from his work. He is the copyright holder. Do you agree with that? Ok, he accepted the sublicense, but I think it should change in the future and have some restrictions or did I get this sublicense wrong? Am I wrong?

Well, I'm not saying that isn't cool to share the files with the community, on the contrary. It's cool to share and a good way to learn how to create amazing filters from others and of corse we want people use them for make part of their works. Well, it's a little confuse. Just my comments. I need to rest my mind and think a little better on this topic to get to write more instead saying some wrong stuff.


What are others members/beta tester/ff team opinion/view?


Cheers.

if you can donload the filter from the library for free it's very easy to copy a filter with some minor edit, and the "new" filter is yours also if it is similar to another one!

I think that Vald solution is the best solution with a free library available

yes, you're right, but think about that:
now in the library there are some good wood filters, this means that no-one can create another wood filter (that will be very very similar to the old one, at least with some minor changes) and make a commercial use of that?

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but im guessing things could become complex with all that sort of stuff.

unfortunately things are very very complex...


PS: sorry for my bad english

Maybe it is best that the library is in general open source filters for cases like i just mentioned and also that its a great learning resource for up and coming texture developers I think it should stay as it is IMO but i think maybe the original creator can choose if the textures open to be used in image form. But yeah its a very complex subject.

it's always polite to give credit where credit is due; it's not always mandated, however.

FF is in a unique postions here with legal stuff. normal copyright law says you cant sell derivative work, at least not without permission. at least one game company sued a group that made a mod based on their game and won. the group was selling it commercially. being a derivative work off the original game engine, they lost the suit. other examples of derivative works exist as well. i recently heard of one where a sculture was making sculptures based on printed images. he was sued and lost.

you also want to be careful of importing copyrighted images into FF, running a filter on it and thinking you can then sell it without the permission of the original copyright holder. you cant; not legally.

there's also one scenario not mentioned yet. someone could make a filter and NOT publish it into the library and sell it. i suppose it would be covered under the eula you agreed to when you bought/downloaded the program, though.

as for filters published in the library and someone selling YOUR filter separtely from the program, why would anyone buy it? they cant use it without the program and if they have the program, they can get the filter for free. so, that one seems irrelevant.

and as for someone making a filtered image from YOUR filter that was published in the library, then the eula allows this and i think that's the right way to go. basically, as filter makers, we are sort of independent sub-contractors or coders who are adding to the program. and therefore you are governed by the agreements laid out by the original company... and so are your filters. it would be like some independent person writing a piece of code for photoshop that was incorporated into photoshop. it now falls under the licensing of the company. the company in this case is FF and the licensing is quite generous. basically, they want you to use and sell your images, much the same way photoshop wants you to use your images you create with photoshop. if adobe didnt do this, they'd soon go broke, as no one would want to buy a graphic editor that didnt allow the images to be sold.

and from what i can determine of the eula, if i made filters and didnt publish them in the library but only sold them to individuals, that would be ok also. i just wonder what would be the legal issue if i did make filters, did not publish them and only sold them to individuals and then someone else decided to sell MY filters or tried to upload them to the library. would i be able to then sue the person who uploaded them to the library, and worse, would i be able to sue FF? now, that's one you may want to look at, vlad. and please, 'i' in this case means anyone. i have no intention of suing anyone

Craig

Being new here but not new to texture creation I agree.
The bottom line whether your comfortable now or not it you agreed when you uploaded your filters that others can use them for commercial and none commercial purposes.
If you didnt read the eual or have changed your mind then maybe you could remove them from the library.

No offence to FF but this is a cheap way to get what are normally called Presets in other texture generating apps. As Craig said, people who are uploading their filters are unofficial contractors ( and underpaid in my opinion lol ) and teh filters are basicly presets for others to render and tweak to their liking.

Its one of those debates thats complex deep and everyone has a story to tell or an opinion but the fact is the eual for FF was written and agreed before you very wonderful people uploaded them to the library

I for one thank you but as someone who earns a living from texture creation...I ca assure you I dont want to simply steal other ppls ideas... want to make my own!

However that said , whilst I am learning this high end plugin its your prior skill and experience that will be teaching me how it works as I disect all the 'thingies' ( yeah Im a real pro at this!) * scans earlier posts looking for the word* ...componants?


There! thats my 2 penny worth!

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roseenglish1 wrote: No offence to FF but this is a cheap way to get what are normally called Presets in other texture generating apps. [...] teh filters are basicly presets for others to render and tweak to their liking.

It's simply a clever system that leads to a continual build-up of content value for developers and users alike, much like running a perpetual competition, with the best entries winning rewards. The more users contribute, and the higher the quality the community puts out, the better the tool becomes. The better the tool becomes, the more customers will be attracted. It's a win-win upward spiral for anyone who invests in the tool.

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roseenglish1 wrote: As Craig said, people who are uploading their filters are unofficial contractors ( and underpaid in my opinion lol ) and teh filters are basicly presets for others to render and tweak to their liking.

Personally, I decided to invest time into learning FF and building filters simply because I wanted to be able to harness its potential for my studio pipeline. Usually, I don't get paid for deciding to learn a new tool, and one certainly can't expect payment when signing up for a public beta. While building filters requires a significant time investment on part of an author, one also has to see the other side's perspective: a significant part of the filters coming out of the beta probably wouldn't pass any real-world quality assurance. The tenor who is clearing his throat simply can't expect to earn applause for that. Hence the importance of having a Reward System that encourages authors to deliver quality.

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Vladimir Golovin wrote: And knowledge -- anyone can open filters to see how they work.

Exactly. It's like a visual cookbook, with an ever-growing number of recipes. In a few years, the library will most likely contain solutions to many of the common texturing problems encountered in the industry.

This aspect of FF is also one of the most appealing to me. Imagine the joy when you discover that for your current texturing problem, some author has already found a solution. This can be a real time-saver, since now you don't have to re-invent the wheel. You open his filter, rip out the essential parts and use these as the basis for a solution tailored to your own project. What a powerful tool indeed!

Interesting thread and comments. I will not make any comment about them now.

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Kraellin wrote: but we're going to need a MUCH better way to FIND those filters within FF. imagine when we hit 5000 filters, or 10,000! 'let's see, i remember seeing a filter in FF a couple months ago... now, where did i see that?'

Well now we have more tha 8500 filters!! and STILL DO NOT HAVE a MUCH better way to FIND filters within FF. At least one that does not depend on you remembering the name of a filter, or a keyword of the filter. And this was in 2007, and we are already a few days from 2012, AND as far as I know is STILL about the same, probably there will be some hope when probably at the end of 2012 could be released Filter Forge 4.0.