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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
OK, now for a really hard question; so, we know how to take a map input and sphere-ize it using offset. My question is, suppose you wanted to rotate the 'sphere' to an arbitrary angle, such that the poles are visible. Is that possible? How?

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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
I thought that spherify by byRo LINK might help, but it doesn't seem to do the trick.

I think that perhaps something with curves needs to happen in the gradient offset map.
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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
Here's some tests:
It's sort of getting there

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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
This is better, but only partially wrapping ...

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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
Here's the filter so far:

_SphereTwist1.ffxml
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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
Somewhat interesting effect

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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
Wrong, but interesting...

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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
Here is the filter

_SphereTwist3.ffxml
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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
Again, interesting but wrong. This one might have potential, though.

_SphereTwist4.ffxml
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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
Here's the image:

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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
Hey, actual progress!



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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
It actually tilts!

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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
It's not working at 100%. It's doing some strange things w/ the texture. The vertical stripes are parallel instead of converging at the top.

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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
Here's the file:

_SphereTwist7.ffxml
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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
Here it is with a better test pattern

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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
Definitely a strange effect. It seems to help to have seamless tiling on.

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ThreeDee
Lost in Space

Posts: 1672
Filters: 112
Piece of cake (just kidding!)

After pondering this for a while, it seems that if you can generate an intermediate distortion that looks like this, you could "tilt" it (by offsetting it vertically as shown in the diagram):



(N=North pole, S=South pole, blue line = equator, black line = image area)

You would have to have both hemispheres.

As to how to get to that point, I would suggest spherizing your texture (i.e. polar coordinates) and distorting it so that the lines at the equator cross it at 90 degree angle as in the diagram.

Then you would have to "bulge" it to look like globe.

It may not result in "perfect" spherical mapping, but I assume you could get reasonably close.
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ThreeDee
Lost in Space

Posts: 1672
Filters: 112
So, of course I had to try it -- this one almost works.



If I can get the distortion to match the diagram, it probably will.
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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
Dude, you rock!
Seriously, I'm completely impressed.

Quote
ThreeDee wrote:
So, of course I had to try it -- this one almost works.


Almost? (It looks pretty spot-on to me.)

Are you using offset or refraction to get the poles to compress?
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ThreeDee
Lost in Space

Posts: 1672
Filters: 112
It isn't geometrically correct nor perfect, but it looks pretty good now.



You can see how much I had to bloat it to make it look like a sphere by looking at the size difference of the squares at the equator in the first and the last render.

And no, it certainly wasn't too easy to do.

There shall be snippets.
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ThreeDee
Lost in Space

Posts: 1672
Filters: 112
Quote
CorvusCroax wrote:
Dude, you rock! Seriously, I'm completely impressed.

Thanks, Corvus! It was a challenge and a half.
Quote
CorvusCroax wrote:
Almost? (It looks pretty spot-on to me.)

That version has serious problems if you look at the first and the last render closely -- the lines at the edges go completely weird. I had difficulty making my intermediate distortion match the diagrammatic idea.
Quote
CorvusCroax wrote:
Are you using offset or refraction to get the poles to compress?

I used Spherize/Unspherize UberEdition to make two polar maps one on top of the other for north and south hemispheres kinda like I show in the diagram. It was a real bitch to make the next step work and match the meridians up correctly. It's all done by offsets. There's about 15 separate offset steps in the filter now!
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ThreeDee
Lost in Space

Posts: 1672
Filters: 112
Maybe "3D" planets with those nebulae aren't such a far-fetched idea...
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StevieJ
Designer/Artist

Posts: 11264
Filters: 163
+2 I'm soaking this up like a sponge in a desert.....this is really good stuff!!! smile:devil:
Steve

"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :)
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
Filters: 65
Exciting times! smile:devil:
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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StevieJ
Designer/Artist

Posts: 11264
Filters: 163
That's for sure.....where's your popcorn smilie??? smile;) smile:D
Steve

"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :)
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
Filters: 65
Oh, I thought that devil was more fitting to the occasion! smile;)
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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ThreeDee
Lost in Space

Posts: 1672
Filters: 112
Speaking of the devil, them filters are submitted now.

smile:devil: 3D Sphere:



smile:devil: Rotatable Sphere Snippet:



smile:dgrin:
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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
That's awesome. I can't believe you figured that out so fast, ThreeDee. (I think my brain is still in a knot from trying the stuff I did.) How the @#$% do you figure this stuff out?
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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
btw: have you ever thought of writing an 'Understanding Offset' page / tutorial over at 'dilla's dos and don't Wiki?
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ThreeDee
Lost in Space

Posts: 1672
Filters: 112
Quote
CorvusCroax wrote:
That's awesome. I can't believe you figured that out so fast, ThreeDee. (I think my brain is still in a knot from trying the stuff I did.) How the @#$% do you figure this stuff out?


I like these "is this even possible in FF?" challenges.

In this case it must have something to do with geometry being one of my favorite subjects and my fascination with different mapping systems ("Mapping" as in world atlas). I first tried to figure out if there is a way to simply rotate a texture spherically but I couldn't do it, so next I asked myself what is halfway between where I'm starting from and where I want to get to. The primary problem seemed to be the poles and the tilting on X-axis, so I got the idea of making an intermediate flat map that already has the poles. In a way polar mapping is a combination of cylindrical mapping in three coordinate directions, so somewhere there the solution loomed.

In fact, if you had asked me 6 months ago whether this transformation was possible in FF, I would probably have said 'no.'

Quote
CorvusCroax wrote:
btw: have you ever thought of writing an 'Understanding Offset' page / tutorial over at 'dilla's dos and don't Wiki?


I was thinking about it. Seemed like quite a bit of work, but perhaps doing it one offset feature at a time it wouldn't sound like too much to undertake.
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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
Oh, like a mercator projection....

Quote
ThreeDee wrote:
I was thinking about it. Seemed like quite a bit of work, but perhaps doing it one offset feature at a time it wouldn't sound like too much to undertake.


Doesn't have to be too much work. I think that people (myself included) have a hard time understanding the nuances of how and why offset works. You seem to have an excellent grip on offseting.

Ok, since you did that one so easy, how about Goode homolosine projection?




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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
Just kidding! smile:D

Ponch says 'You the man!'

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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
Filters: 65
Quote
ThreeDee wrote:
was thinking about it. Seemed like quite a bit of work, but perhaps doing it one offset feature at a time it wouldn't sound like too much to undertake.


You'd defininitely be THE person to do it, IMO. It appears you're more intuitively familiar with the Offset component than anyone around here. smile:)
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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StevieJ
Designer/Artist

Posts: 11264
Filters: 163
Quote
ThreeDee wrote:
I like these "is this even possible in FF?" challenges.

I've noticed that.....and PLEASE don't stop!!! smile:devil:
Quote
Crapadilla wrote:
You'd defininitely be THE person to do it

+2 Definitely.....

I'm glued to my computer 24/7 just to see what's next..... smile;) smile:D
Steve

"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :)
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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
Hey, crazy idea:

Suppose you took this filter and ran it backwards... you could take the cool NASA pics of mars and such, manually align the poles, and convert them to planar maps. You'd only get 1/2 of the planet, but that might be OK.
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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
So, downloaded the filter and started messing around with it. Wow complicated. I noticed that there are a couple strange things going on. (see image)
1) The underlying pattern is actually reflected once across the 'globe'. So, if you look at the test pattern, C1 and C8 are reflecting.

2) At certain angles, for some reason, the hemispheres 'double' and you get the 'north' hemisphere in both the north and the south, mirrored again.

I suspect that on both, something is a half a step off, or something.

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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
Here is the test pattern I'm using (originally from Mayang).



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ThreeDee
Lost in Space

Posts: 1672
Filters: 112
Hi Corvus,

I can fix some of those things, but not necessarily all. After all, this is NOT true spherical mapping but a simulation that is trying to look like one.

Here's what I could do to fix the tiling, so it isn't mirroring:



Since it is simulated spherical mapping, it tends to look better with repeated pattern.



By the way, in the current version the number of repeats is a bit odd, at Repeat value 2 (as in the above image) you actually get 3 repeats. I probably should fix that as well.

Is this how you want to map it (rendered in a 3D program)?



I think I can get it at least somewhat close to that.
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ThreeDee
Lost in Space

Posts: 1672
Filters: 112
Here's a mod on the Rotatable Sphere Snippet that is closer.

(You'll have to have Seamless Tiling turned on so as to not get mirrored sections.)

Rotatable Sphere Snippet 2.ffxml
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ThreeDee
Lost in Space

Posts: 1672
Filters: 112
Above snippet output looks like this:



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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
Quote
ThreeDee wrote:
Here's a mod on the Rotatable Sphere Snippet that is closer.

(You'll have to have Seamless Tiling turned on so as to not get mirrored sections.)


Awesome. Yes, that is exactly what I had in mind. Odd that you have to turn Seamless off to get it to stop mirroring.

Would you mind if I used this in a couple of planet filters?
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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
Filters: 18
BTW ThreeDee; if you wanted help doing an 'understanding offsets' wiki article, I'd be more than happy to help. (I might actually learn something in the process. smile:) )
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ThreeDee
Lost in Space

Posts: 1672
Filters: 112
Quote
CorvusCroax wrote:
Would you mind if I used this in a couple of planet filters?


Sure, go ahead.

Although, while I was doing my little animation test, I noticed there was still something wrong with the tiling, so I'm submitting an updated version of the snippet.

(It's attached here in the meanwhile)


Quote
CorvusCroax wrote:
BTW ThreeDee; if you wanted help doing an 'understanding offsets' wiki article, I'd be more than happy to help. (I might actually learn something in the process.)


If you can start with the basic offset ideas, maybe I'll get into it. I can't promise it though. Rather make filters than write manuals, you know what I mean?

Rotatable Sphere Snippet V2.ffxml
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SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12298
Filters: 35
This is very interesting and useful

Great work and thanks for sharing this filters plus the ones already available in the FF library
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