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StevieJ
Designer/Artist

Posts: 11264
Filters: 163
Pattern Glass by Kochubey
http://www.filterforge.com/filters/6928.html

Steve

"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :)
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StevieJ
Designer/Artist

Posts: 11264
Filters: 163
This looks remarkably similar to alot of my glass filters.....here's a few of them.....

http://www.filterforge.com/filters/3746.html
http://www.filterforge.com/filters/3879.html
http://www.filterforge.com/filters/3881.html

I don't appreciate that you've been "knocking-off" some of my filter concepts for your freepacks.....without so much as an email, credit, or even a "thank you".....and it's not the first time this has happened.....you did it to one of my metal filters with a quick dummy blend mode construction.....and Vlad did a sub-optimal rendition of my "DreamScape" filter with his "Dreamy" filter..... smile:?:

By this standard, I guess it's alright for authors to do quick variants on existing filters for program rewards..... smile:?:
Steve

"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :)
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Mike Blackney

Posts: 375
Filters: 57
StevieJ: Likewise, all your filters look like variations on Vlad's 'Frosty', which is one of the very first filters made. It'd be hard not to make a filter that was like one of the thousands you've submitted! Send a PM or email if you really care, it's rude to post this type of message publicly outing someone.


Kochubey: Nice work, I like the variety. smile:pimp:
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StevieJ
Designer/Artist

Posts: 11264
Filters: 163
Quote
Mike Blackney wrote:
all your filters look like variations on Vlad's 'Frosty'

Well Mike, if you take a moment to look at the filter constructions and effects, you will see that my filters are completely different from that of Vlad's "Frosty" filter.....whereas the construction and effects of this filter are basically exactly the same as my filters.....big difference!!!

If I was to spend ten minutes on each one of Vlad and Kochubey's filters and resubmitted them to the library like what was done with this, don't you think people would have a problem with me doing something like that??? Moreover, how would you like it if I did this with your filters??? smile:?:

.....and yes, I have a problem with the lack of any kind of consideration in doing something like this.....and as far as you thinking it's rude to "publically" say something about it, Vlad himself advocates publically "calling out" people on things like this.....so maybe you should redirect your judgment to the moment FF could have easily taken to avoid it..... smile:(
Steve

"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :)
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Mike Blackney

Posts: 375
Filters: 57
I agree with Vlad that outing people for blatant plagiarism should be encouraged, but the similarities between your filter and this one end at Image -> Blur -> Refraction. That's one of the simplest filter combinations available and it's honestly not the most integral part of Pattern Glass. The refraction height maps are the important part and I can't find a single piece plagiarized from yours.

You're being a little ridiculous. The end result is a little similar, but the construction looks entirely new. If I were Kochubey I would expect an apology.
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StevieJ
Designer/Artist

Posts: 11264
Filters: 163
C'mon Mike, you can't possibly think that Vlad and Kochubey aren't smart enough to know how to disguise it with a two-minute component swap out for the same effects, do you??? That's just how long it would take me to do it. They're fully aware that I covered some of these filter concepts.....and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where they came from.....especially when they produce the "exact" same results as what is produced by some of my filters.....

This isn't the first time that something like this has happened. Check out the construction on this filter and try to figure out what the blend components actually do in it......and you will find that they are just "dummy" components to disquise the construction from one of my metal filters......

http://www.filterforge.com/filters/4792.html

Quote
Mike Blackney wrote:
If I were Kochubey I would expect an apology.

You've got to be kidding??? I don't think that I'm being unreasonable to at least want them to say something to me if they are going to issue renditions/variants of my filters that will clearly "take" usage away from them. All they had to do was write me a quick email saying "hey, would you mind if we used renditions of some of your glass filter concepts in our freepacks???"......and I would have said, "No, go right ahead, and thanks for your consideration in approaching me about it first".....pretty much just a common courtesy that I think most authors have come to appreciate and expect here.....
Steve

"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :)
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Mike Blackney

Posts: 375
Filters: 57
You don't seem to get it. Nobody has stolen from you.

Look at the following filters. They all predate your dream scape, they all have 'dream' in the name or comments and they all look pretty similar to yours:

http://www.filterforge.com/filters/2527.html
http://www.filterforge.com/filters/2940.html
http://www.filterforge.com/filters/662.html
http://www.filterforge.com/filters/4922.html
http://www.filterforge.com/filters/3395.html

Do a search for 'Glass' and I imagine in the 300 or so results there will be plenty of filters that predate yours and look close enough that their owners might call you out for plagiarism in the same way.
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StevieJ
Designer/Artist

Posts: 11264
Filters: 163
Nice try Mike, but they're nothing like my DreamScape filters.....the constructions and effects are 110% different (not even close to what is going on with this).....and the only thing similar is "Dream" being in the name.....check them out for yourself. I re-worked the vignette portion of CFandM's "Misty" filter to use in my "DreamScape" series of filters.....and I gave credit to CFandM for it in the filter descriptions.....which is essentially what this is all about.....basic common courtesy!!!

I'm sorry that you feel that I'm unjustified in feeling this way.....but you might feel differently if someone started doing quick makeovers on your filter concepts with the exact same results....claimed them as their own work without a word or credit to you.....and started "leaching" usage away from your filter work.....

For argument sakes, let's say that your right and I'm wrong about this....and this type of thing is perfectly okay. So by that standard, I could start doing twenty-minute makeovers on existing filter concepts to disguise them as my own....get a FF Pro copy for every three HU filters produced.....and start selling FF Pro copies on Ebay for $199....undercutting sales here by $100. That's $200 per hour for my efforts..... smile:beer: .....and all perfectly okay to do by this standard, right??? smile:?:
Steve

"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :)
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Kraellin
Kraellin

Posts: 12749
Filters: 99
steve,

it's the assumption that vlad and/or kochuby ripped your work that is grating here. you make an assumption and then an accusation based on that assumption, whether the assumption is actually correct or not. that's the part that's in error. you may be right; you may be wrong, but it's unproven and you're trying them based on it being true, when it's a common principle/concept in creative work of any kind, that simultaneous creation occurs and another concept of common tools and common workflows tend to produce similar works regardless of author.

the proper way to have handled this would have been to quietly ask vlad and/or kochubey, who are both known and respected authors as well as FF employees, what the deal was. if there was any actual evidence that you were right then you take things to a new level. but just because something may be similar (i havent actually looked at the filters), is no reason they are necessarily copy-cat works.

i know we've had actual copy-cat authors here, but let's not jump on the assumption that because there was one there will be two and that every similar filter is automatically a copy-cat production. if that were the case you and i would both have to throw away half our filters smile;) smile:D (j/k)
If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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StevieJ
Designer/Artist

Posts: 11264
Filters: 163
Well, this one was just a little too obvious.....and they are fully aware that I've done them.....

I actually think it's a personal issue that they have with me.....because they're not exactly "thrilled" with me constantly beating on them about the "shortcomings" of what is going on here.....like going ahead with the Mac version on faulty shared code that is causing all the instability problems on both platforms (biggest mistake, IMHO.....they should have replaced that shared 3rd-party code and stabalized the program before moving onto the Mac version with it), tangable copyright protection with the EULA, progressive author incentives, etc etc etc.....so I think that I'm kinda getting the "end run/don't give that bastard an EP" treatment..... smile;) smile:D LOL.....
Steve

"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :)
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Kraellin
Kraellin

Posts: 12749
Filters: 99
steve,

i'll guarantee that, just like you or I, they are pretty well aware of their 'shortcomings'. i rarely enjoy someone 'beating me' with mine smile;)

as for the other, the filter issue, i really dont have the data on that. and my original point still stands on that; talk to them. get their side of things. they're good people and i doubt they need to plaigerize anyone's work here, but even if they seemingly had, talk to them.
If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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StevieJ
Designer/Artist

Posts: 11264
Filters: 163
It's okay.....somehow I think I'll get over it..... smile;) smile:D

As far as FF's "shortcomings" are concerned.....I realize that they are a very small team and don't have the resources to do any more than what they are currently doing.....and I'm quite sure that I haven't been saying anything that they don't already know.....so I'm not going to waste any more of my time "beating" them with the obvious anymore..... smile;)
Steve

"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :)
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Kraellin
Kraellin

Posts: 12749
Filters: 99
hehe, ok smile:)
If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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