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David Roberson |
So far, my favorite threads have been peoples experiment and work-in-progress threads. It seems like a good idea, to get a bit of feedback -- or help -- on filters I'm developing.
To kick things off, I have a pair of related terraforming filters. The first is really a responsive layout tool, stripped down to the basic black-and-white Ocean Mask (Terraform Plus - Hydroform). The second is the full Terraform Plus. ![]() ![]() |
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Posted: February 10, 2018 11:55 pm | ||||
David Roberson |
Almost forgot! To really preview or C&C this, you kinda need the files!
One reasonable request, this is for personal use. Please, no splits or derivitives until I've had a chance to submit these. They're pretty much ready now, but I like to sit on it for a night or two just to make sure no other tweaks or revisions come to mind. If you try it, let me know what you think. Enjoy! _Bench 02 Terraform Plus - Hydroform.ffxml |
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Posted: February 11, 2018 12:07 am | ||||
David Roberson |
...guess I have to do these one at a time.
While I'm thinking about it, does anyone know of a way to save (or cut and paste, maybe) settings from one filter to another (between versions of the same filter, anyway)? _Bench 02A Terraform Plus.ffxml |
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Posted: February 11, 2018 12:08 am | ||||
David Roberson |
Waiting was a good idea. Before I even got to bed, I realized I was not getting the desired results, with many of the right components -- but not working together. So, today I tore down the terrain generation module and went back to studying Landform to see why I seemed to get too much noise no matter how I went about it.
I discovered that the base noise and the noise distortion were colliding, and the point where my Erosion came in compounded the noise problem. The revised terrain generation is a lot lighter on components, and the coloring gradients have been adjusted for the improved height map it creates. ![]() Give it a test drive, and tell me what you think! _Bench 02A1 Terraform Plus.ffxml |
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Posted: February 12, 2018 12:10 am | ||||
David Roberson |
This is what the height map looks like...
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Posted: February 12, 2018 12:12 am | ||||
David Roberson |
Here's a quick render on a sphere...
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Posted: February 12, 2018 12:36 am | ||||
David Roberson |
Wasn't ready to quit early for the day, so I took an hour or two and updated my Technical Panels filter. Worked out a more functional height map, improved the metallic surfaces and added noise variation control in Settings.
![]() I'm submitting the update as soon as I've gone over the presets lighting. |
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Posted: February 12, 2018 4:46 am | ||||
David Roberson |
Work on my Terraform Plus filter has been stumbling over a rendering hump. The two main components, continent/ocean shaping and terrain forming, are reasonably quick to render alone, but when they are in the same filter together, they take a minute to even start (visible) rendering. Once that initial pause is passed, the render finishes quickly (again), so I'm getting some kind of preprocessing lag.
I keep trying to optimize, but I may have to go in and break them up into smaller components so I can move the slower processes closer to the root. Not that anyone asked, but I had to do something while FF was busy. Seemed like a good excuse to make a progress report. ![]() |
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Posted: February 14, 2018 5:50 pm | ||||
David Roberson |
Well, I solve 9 out of 10 problems... then number 11 pops up, and I have to go all the way back to the beginning.
Sigh. ![]() |
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Posted: February 15, 2018 2:36 am | ||||
Sphinx.
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if you post your filter I may be able to help
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Posted: February 15, 2018 7:37 am | ||||
David Roberson |
I appreciate the offer, but I think I've just about got it working again. I just need to recalibrate the elevation gradients. I will be posting the current version of the filter in a bit, though.
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Posted: February 15, 2018 4:58 pm | ||||
David Roberson |
Once again, I'm spending more time waiting for FF to respond than I am working. I don't know how long it will take to master FF, but I've pretty much mastered jamming it up. This time, I did it by weeding out dozens of components and optimizing with threshold clipping where applicable. My filter went from a sluggish minute or two to get started, to not responding for the better part of an hour over simple things, like updating the order of controls.
Just trying to make sense of it all; I can get the raw filter put together without a hitch. It's always been when I try to optimize that it becomes completely unresponsive. |
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Posted: February 16, 2018 8:11 am | ||||
David Roberson |
I have not given up on getting Terraform Plus to work as a complete filter, but the three major components work fine, so I can post them for a preview.
Basically, use the first part to find a good layout and render it. Then you load that first image into the second part, generate the terrain details and render. Finally, load the first and second render into the third to color the terrain and add ice caps if you like. Here's part A: _Bench 02 Terraform Plus [A1] - Hydroform.ffxml |
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Posted: February 16, 2018 9:39 am | ||||
David Roberson |
This next part is the most complicated. It takes a second or two to start.
Part B: _Bench 02 Terraform Plus [B1].ffxml |
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Posted: February 16, 2018 9:40 am | ||||
David Roberson | ||||
Posted: February 16, 2018 9:40 am | ||||
David Roberson |
To anyone following, if you've looked inside the B filter, I've got 3 blur instances, a median, a refraction, 5 noise distortions, and a half-dozen or so Perlins. The way they're chained together, I don't see a way to exclude any. I'm pretty sure they're my bottleneck, though I don't know why the addition of lightning fast groups turns a minute lag into a half-hour of grinding.
I tried to bypass this segment, to isolate the upstream branch for the layout portion of the filter's job. FF just keeps grinding on the "off" branches, turning a fast group into cold tar. |
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Posted: February 16, 2018 10:03 pm | ||||
David Roberson |
If you're new to Filter Forge, and in any doubt about using the wiki, help and forums, I can really vouch for them. I'm comfortable with self-teaching, but there is a lot of useful information out there that has saved my bacon on this project.
The solution to my problem involved some cut-and-paste, a lot of weeding, and a couple of added features in a new filter environment. So, now that I've broken down and re-incorporated the three main components, and added a couple of simple cut-outs (a fast mask and fast terrain demo mode), I've got a faster, more optimized filter! The upd ate generates a simple mask and a fast terrain by default. The option to load pre-generated masks and terrain is there still; once you have the layout set and rendered, you can by-pass the mask generation to build your terrain. Once built and rendered, the detailed terrain can be loaded, bypassing the demo and generator and allowing the terrain coloring to be se t with immediate responsiveness (at least in my initial test). I have to create the presets still, so it's still a little way from being submitted. I'm posting the filter (with just the default prese t) for people to test drive. If you are so inclined, you can post your favorite layout (and parameters) here, and I may add them to the presets when I submit the filter to the library (or in an update, which is probably more likely given forum use). _Bench 01.1 Terraform Plus.ffxml |
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Posted: February 17, 2018 4:12 am | ||||
David Roberson |
Whoops! Ignore that filter, I just posted. I had a couple of wires crossed. I'll repost in a bit, when I've made sure it's got no other glitches...
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Posted: February 17, 2018 4:24 am | ||||
David Roberson | ||||
Posted: February 17, 2018 4:54 am | ||||
David Roberson |
Somewhere in the process of optimizing, I knocked out most of the terrain feedback features. So, today I spent a few hours putting them back in. Once again, I have mountains and plant life that are shaped by the oceans--it's a sort of reverse engineering, since the shape of oceans is really driven by the shape of the terrain. It just happens that my method interprets the shape of the oceans to generate the terrain.
I should have a finished test render in a few minutes... |
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Posted: February 17, 2018 6:56 pm | ||||
David Roberson |
![]() The image is a bit smaller than expected. I saved it out while in the filter editor... |
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Posted: February 17, 2018 7:10 pm | ||||
David Roberson | ||||
Posted: February 17, 2018 7:11 pm | ||||
David Roberson | ||||
Posted: February 17, 2018 7:29 pm | ||||
David Roberson |
![]() Hopefully, this one is better! |
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Posted: February 17, 2018 7:30 pm | ||||
David Roberson |
After all that work, there was still too much lag! That forced me to really look at how I was generating my terrain; there had to be a more efficient way to get the look I needed. Turns out, I'd already built a better starting point for a terrain. I just had to use the noise from the ocean mask in a different way.
So, I went back to rebuilding and testing, and found my problem spot. I was putting too much into my erosion branch. The median and refraction were choking on it. Having cleaned that up, and finished re-calibrating, I got to a much more reasonable render time. Here's the most recent test render, and the filter is attached: ![]() _Bench 01.4 Terraform Plus.ffxml |
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Posted: February 20, 2018 5:38 pm | ||||
David Roberson |
Here's a quick update to the current working filter. Just did a little clean-up, and put the controls back in the right order.
_Bench 01.4 Terraform Plus.ffxml |
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Posted: February 21, 2018 6:30 pm | ||||
David Roberson | ||||
Posted: February 21, 2018 6:30 pm | ||||
Skybase
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I really love the work you've been putting into this! The details are fantastic.
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Posted: February 22, 2018 1:59 am | ||||
David Roberson |
Thank you! I'm almost done with the presets. There's only one change I'm contemplating before submitting it to the Library. Given a choice, I'd want this to render at 2:1 aspect ratio, so there's no stretching when you wrap it on a globe. I know there's a way to force it to conform to the Image Bounds, but I do need Seamless Tiling on as well.
My solution could be to split the square, with the diffuse map on the top half, and a normal map on the bottom. The added bonus is that you use the one image for both map slots, and adjust the tiling. I could do the same with the height map, footing it with a specular/gloss or ocean mask. Dunno if that'll add too much overhead to the render, though. |
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Posted: February 22, 2018 2:40 am | ||||
David Roberson |
A quick test with just the diffuse portion at 2:1 ratio reveals that I did not compensate for the width well enough. I can fix it easily enough, but there's no predicting the effect on all the presets I just made!
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Posted: February 22, 2018 4:02 am | ||||
David Roberson |
For full detail go here...
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Posted: February 22, 2018 4:04 am | ||||
Indigo Ray
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Posted: February 24, 2018 9:19 am | ||||
PayPaul
Posts: 106 |
Which filter is that? I've looked at your filters and don't see it but you do have some other filters I can't wait to try for some graphics projects i have in mind. have you posted this planet render filter yet? Don't step on a dead dogma. It'll turn up again and bite you! |
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Posted: February 24, 2018 10:55 am | ||||
David Roberson |
Indigo Ray, I usually finish my planets in Photoshop CS5 using the 3D tools, or bring the textures into a 3D app. If you tweaked the colors in the filter editor, I might like to see what you did. Color quality and consistency across platforms has always been a problem in my experience. I'm on a laptop, with an HDTV as my second monitor, and the adjustments on both are not good enough to get decent color sync between them!
I have yet to try making decent planetary clouds, so I was not planning to make a planet render filter like yours.I really like your clouds! I hope I can do something similar as my next project. For now, I'm just trying to finish the current revision of Terraform Plus. I'm improving the proportioning of land in the sub-arctic-to-equatorial range, and trying to cut down on render time without sacrificing detail. |
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Posted: February 24, 2018 2:42 pm | ||||
David Roberson |
Indigo Ray, I checked your filter list to see if your planet renderer had been posted to the Library. It's been a few months, so I figured I should ask if you're still working on it. For my own part, I'm still trying to get Terraform Plus to work at a more reasonable pace. Seems like every time I think I got it optimized, it decides to break the filter file, stopping further progress and forcing me to start building again from scratch! For the life of me, I can't figure out why a component set that works fine for a hundred times suddenly decides not to let go of a process thread, killing the filter. |
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Posted: June 25, 2018 11:18 pm | ||||
David Roberson |
In the meantime, I went back and finished the thought that got me started on it in the first place; wishing Landform could be spheremapped and used in a 3D app.
So, today I posted "Terraform" to the Library. I also fixed the dry diffuse option in my Landform Plus Surfaces, which should update around the same time Terraform is available. If accepted... ![]() |
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Posted: June 25, 2018 11:26 pm | ||||
David Roberson | ||||
Posted: June 25, 2018 11:26 pm | ||||
David Roberson |
D'oh! I just realized the outputs were not connected to the Results component! So, yeah, consider those last two examples came from Landform Plus Surfaces, wet and dry diffuse options.
I'll finish rendering the Terraform versions, then add them. ...and before I forget to mention, there will still be a Terraform Plus. After building it 50 times, it's far from a derivitive of Landform, though the inspiration remains. I've already got the revised layout snippet. Now I need to get through the texturing stages without it choking to death. ![]() |
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Posted: June 25, 2018 11:34 pm | ||||
David Roberson | ||||
Posted: June 26, 2018 2:58 am | ||||
David Roberson | ||||
Posted: June 26, 2018 3:01 am | ||||
David Roberson | ||||
Posted: June 26, 2018 3:02 am | ||||
David Roberson |
I'm not sure if I want to hold onto the "theme" texturing style--or how much I want to branch out more to the style I was trying to create. I may end up somewhere in the middle, since the things I was doing kept dead-ending on me. Too resource intensive.
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Posted: June 26, 2018 3:05 am | ||||
David Roberson | ||||
Posted: June 26, 2018 3:27 am | ||||
David Roberson |
Right after I submitted my filters, I realized there were a few loose connections to fix, so here are the correct versions:
Landform Plus Surfaces.ffxml |
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Posted: June 26, 2018 10:50 pm | ||||
David Roberson | ||||
Posted: June 26, 2018 10:51 pm |
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