Presidential Politics :)

lol, CF. i didnt even look at your links because i remember pat paulson the smothers brothers variety hour

ok, i had to go read one. hilarious!

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PAT PAULSEN BEATS KUCINICH IN MICHIGAN PRIMARY January 22nd, 2008 · No Comments PRESS RELEASE JAN-22-DETROIT, MI - Even deceased, presidential candidate Pat Paulsen managed to garner more votes than Democratic candidate Kucinich in several precincts of Michigan’s January 15th primary.

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Carl wrote: It really quite offensive the amount of money spent on campaigns

It certainly is.....especially when that money could be used to help alot of people in need.....

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CFandM wrote: Even in death he is still the better candidate

I remember that too.....the Smothers Brothers.... LOL.....

Well, Sonny Bono did it.....

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jffe wrote: get back to just being a hair more 'tribal' and taking care of our business/people at home here

I hole-heartedly agree with that.....too much money helping others when there are people (especially children) who need it here. I don't think we should ignore terrorism, the Sudan, Darfor, etc.....but at least take a percentage and use it for people in need here.....

They should put politicans on lie detector when they have debates now that would be interesting. We recently had our elections [ finally got rid of Howard yay! ] and what both parties did was kept promising more and more money for this and that to bribe the voters knowing they couldn't deliver all they promised and if they did inflation would sky rocket, interest rate would rise etc.

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StevieJ wrote: Hilary Clinton just pulled another "cry" episode

They certainly are good at manipulating, but you would have to wonder if you would want some one who is not in control of there emotions in charge, bursting into tears in a crisis or under pressure would cloud rational thought. From an outsiders view she comes across as hard and calculating but I guess they all are.

The famous quote " it doesn't matter who you vote for a politican always wins "

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StevieJ wrote: I don't think we should ignore terrorism,

----Assuming there was any terrorism having to do with the U.S. (other's terrorizing us, yeah right, yer saying we are not THE military/bullying power of the world ?), why try and stop it ? Do you have anything invested in the companies that steal oil from the middle east ? Did you vote *yes* on a secret board to have a war ON Iraq ? Why are WE all paying to protect the 1) old, 2) rich, 3) men, )4 white ? And why are Iraqi's labelled 'terrorists' while trying to defend what's theirs and stop letting the 1) old, 2) rich, 3) men, 4) white, get richer off them and their land/resources ? Certainly that makes no sense in reverse, if it were your land, your oil, your dead family, etc.
----The only people who've ever kept me down, or cut my wages, or threatened my jawb or 'way of life', ie = the only 'terrorism' I've ever seen, smelled, or dealt with in any way shape or form, came from 1) old, 2) rich, 3) men, 4) white. Which is sad, since I am one of "them", for any practical purpose, and other than the rich part.
----But, on the other hand, who stands to gain from creating some pseudo terrorism threat, wow, hmmm, same group. 1) old, 2) rich, 3) men, 4) white. If you ever wonder who's f*cking you over, ever, just follow the money. Who owns Halliburton ? Iraqis ? Nooooo. Who makes and sells all the weaponry our mercernaries (The good olde U.S. military, trained and paid to kill) use ? Iraqis ? Al Queida(sp?) ? Noooo. Let's do it one more time just for fun, 1) old, 2) rich, 3) men, 4) white). Follow = the $, don't believe me, just follow the $ yourself.

jffe

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Carl wrote: 1) old, 2) rich, 3) men, 4) white).

Is that why Obarman won't win

Our government is aligning with Mc Cain for some reason. Our media is say it's close but Hillary is wining the important bits Maybe Obama should cry a bit

There's some truth to that......they discovered that McCain and Huccabee had made a deal to backdoor Romney.....so I know how you feel.....

Wow your the first to say Murdock is impartial, he helped bring down the labour government here a couple of years ago because he didn't like the cross media laws [ stopped him owning everything he could get his hands on ]

I take it Obama is picking up momentum

i dont think he can win it, steve. i believe he'll take the dem nomination, but not the presidency. the current polls show if hillary wins it, the obama supporters will go mc cain, while if obama wins it, the hillary supporters will go mc cain. lol. the man is between a rock and a hard place.

Obama has brought out record numbers of young people to vote.....as well as smashing all the records in fundraising.....and did it all with no special interest contributions.....quite amazing.....

this one's for steve http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8lvc-...re=related

Well, here's my tuppence worth...

George Bush should be on the stage....he's funny as f**k - but, how he ever made it to the presidency of one of the worlds greatest superpowers is absolutely beyond me

I mean have you seen his 'Bushisms' - some of them are priceless, especially the ones where he has to vocalize...

Anyway, I'm convinced he's some sort of f*****g advanced automaton who's neural network keeps malfunctioning - I mean, what else could it be ???

And don't even get me started on Islamic Fundamentalists

As for the UK...

Boris Johnson for Prime Minister - he'll do a better job than
that fat, scottish, fish-out-of-water git that we currently have

I actually like some of Ron Paul's ideas.....like leaving the economy alone and letting the "over-inflated" housing market "deflate" to where it is supposed to be.....let the big companies "take it on the chin" without bailing them out.....and stop catering to Israel......

pat paulson for president!

well, for that matter, name three major accomplishments of john mc cain, or any politician

the rich shld pay their fair share. everyone shld pay their fair share. the question is, what is one's fair share and that's where it gets sticky. i've heard grown, intelligent people voice the opinion that because you make more you shld pay a higher percentage of your income in taxes. that doesnt sound very fair to me. i'm a firm believer in a national sales tax and the ONLY way for the federal government to collect taxes. that is a truly fair way, plus it's based on what you spend, not on what you earn. what you earn is yours. you earned it. government did nothing there, directly, to help you earn that. government shld be paid on what it does, not on what it demands, just like the rest of us. a national sales tax based on a straight percentage is the only fair way. no loopholes, noone is exempt, no lawyers involved and everyone pays their fair share. period.

and i like your point about 'rich people hire me'

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well, for that matter, name three major accomplishments of john mc cain, or any politician

That is just it, I can't. I can't with any of them. We voted out the best canidates both in the Republican and Democratic party.

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Can either of them get me excited at what they bring to the table? Nope. But I will be voting for McCain as the least likely to cause harm.

That is why I am going to wait until november before I come to any rash descisons. I am going to let the politicians talk and see what their true character and true intentions are.

Sales tax is regressive in nature though, unlike say federal income taxes which are progressive, and neither is 'the answer' on their own unfortunately. There are various different taxes to appease different people ( ie = income levels ) as some would always vote no one way and yes the other. This way, with all kinds of various taxes, you are always 1) working and in debt ha-ha, and 2) too confused to know who or what to vote for or against to improve your lot. And ultimately as far as #2, see #1.

jffe

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jffe wrote: Sales tax is regressive in nature though, unlike say federal income taxes which are progressive,

forgive me, jffe, but those are just charged catchwords that mean very little to me. so, i tend to reject both. here's the nuts and bolts of income tax versus sales tax.

1. income tax penalizes working. the more you work, the more you earn and the more you get taxed, but even worse, the more you earn, the higher your tax bracket! so, it's a rising scale of penalites. the more you earn, the more you're penalized proportionally.

2. income tax is government's hammer. raise your voice a bit too loudly and i'll almost guarantee you get a tax audit. i've actually had this happen to me on a small scale once. i wrote to my congressman and senators back in the 80's about an online tax being proposed. it was just form letter stuff but a formal protest. that year, and in no other year before or since, i got a mild audit. now, one can say that was just coincidence and i'm over-reacting and you could well be right, but it struck me a bit odd at the time and still smells a bit.

3. income taxes are WAY too confusing as they stand. it's an utter fiasco. my dad sends out the farm taxes each year to a professional, but still does his own personal taxes. it takes him a week or more of stewing, studying, pulling out his hair, phone calls, online research and downloads and all probably other hassles i'm not even aware of. when he gets the farm taxes back from the prossional, it's like a freaking book, it's so large a packet. and i'm not exaggerating here. it's easily a half inch or more of paper. and that's just the farm stuff. i've never seen or heard of a government before that made it so hard to contribute money to. utterly mind-blowing.

4. and that brings me to this one; when you get right down to it folks shldnt have to be forced to pay taxes, ever. forced. that's the key word. it's OUR country! we shld be contributing to it willingly. it's ours! mine! yours! you spend money on your house and clothes, right? so, why wouldnt you spend money on your roads and parks and so on in the same way? they are yours! (this is also why i hate property taxes... that tax says 'you dont own this. it's not yours. you're a renter. "we" own. you dont!') ok, i know that's an ideal, but if you dont work towards an ideal, then what are you working towards?

5. sales taxes penalize spending, not earning. this is the side you shld tax. if joe millionaire and joe poorman both are paying 20% on that loaf of bread they buy, they are both contributing proportionally to what they earn. joe millionaire is going to spend more so he's going to pay more. joe poorman makes less and is going to buy less, so he's going to pay less proportionally. it's the only fair way to tax.

6. government shld be like any other business and get paid for that they actually produce and is bought. income taxes tax based on what YOU earn, not what the government did to earn anything. the arguement is that, 'well, you wouldnt have earned anything without government. therefore, government is entitled to a share of your earnings.'. umm, ok, that almost works, except there have been too many examples of where people survive just fine without government. you can take a cruise through history to see many examples of this. so, the arguement isnt really very sound. it does have some merit. ostensibly, we do survive better because of good roads, a relatively safe environment, nice parks, a system of administration that does, well, something, i suppose (we can debate this separately ). but, that arguement works on the side of sales tax, too. so, the two cancel out.

7. there are no loopholes in sales tax. everyone pays and everyone pays the same percentage. nothing could be more fair.

8. administration costs would be drastically reduced with a sales tax instead of the current IRS.

9. the amount of paper saved with a sales tax over income tax, would probably forest europe a few times over.

10. govenment shld never, ever, EVER be allowed to set the taxation rate of its people! EVER!!!!!!! the people shld be responsible for that and only the people by a large majority vote! EVER!!!!!!! whatever the amendment was to the constitution that allowed an income tax shld be repealed immediately!!!

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Kraellin wrote: 10. govenment shld never, ever, EVER be allowed to set the taxation rate of its people! EVER!!!!!!! the people shld be responsible for that and only the people by a large majority vote! EVER!!!!!!! whatever the amendment was to the constitution that allowed an income tax shld be repealed immediately!!!

I recall someone telling me once (so this is just hearsay) that when the federal income tax was enacted back in the early years of the 20th century, the opposition argued that while the initial amount of 1/2 of 1% was not a great burden the fear was that before you knew it government would take as much as 2% of a working man's pay in taxes. The proponents replied that this could never happen because citizens would never stand for it and it would result in a revolutionary uprising.