graphics guru
Posts: 16 |
Many filters claim that they have transparency enabled, but when I save the image it has a black background!!!!! What am I missing here? Is there a toggle I need to enable, or is it a 16-bit vs. an 8-bit PNG selection? Please help.
thanks, Mike |
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Posted: September 9, 2016 5:31 pm | ||
Rachel Duim
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Posted: September 9, 2016 5:51 pm | ||
Rachel Duim
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Posted: September 9, 2016 6:01 pm | ||
graphics guru
Posts: 16 |
I have checked the transparency button in every instance! I think it is a fundamental flaw in how the filters are constructed. That is because, as your example shows, It embeds an image fr om 'within' the filter. There is even a way that you can sel ect what image to embed (within the filter editor). But I DO NOT WANT TO DO IT WITHIN THE FILTER EDITOR! I want to be able to build my image within PHOTOSHOP!!!! To do this the software must be able to embed the transparency data as an alpha channel into the output PNG. But what Filter Forge does fr om what I can tell, is it 'premultiplies' the alpha channel into the RGB channels combined with the background image. I have even checked an additional transparency button that some filters provide instead of an image, but it still premultiplies it with black! If the alpha channel is not saved in the data, then it premultiplies black into the image, wh ere transparency should be. Tell me how I can save an image with a separate Alpha channel and I will thank you profusely!!!!
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Posted: September 9, 2016 10:33 pm | ||
Rachel Duim
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Posted: September 9, 2016 10:55 pm | ||
Rachel Duim
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2nd note. This of course gets you alpha on output. Many filters ignore alpha on input, so I can't help you there...
Math meets art meets psychedelia. |
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Posted: September 9, 2016 11:04 pm | ||
Rachel Duim
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More research. The transparency data (alpha channel) is available in the PNG file. True, it comes in as 4 linked channels (RGB, Red, Green, Blue), but you can get the alpha data by doing a Split Channels from the Channel palette. This creates 4 alpha documents, the overall alpha is in the grey document.
Here is before: ![]() Math meets art meets psychedelia. |
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Posted: September 10, 2016 1:43 pm | ||
Rachel Duim
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Posted: September 10, 2016 1:45 pm | ||
ThreeDee
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If you use Filter Forge as a Photoshop plugin, you won't get transparency on the background layer whereas you get transparency with the same filter if you run it on a non-background layer. Filter Forge can't create new channels nor layers in a document. For that matter, you don't have a separate transparency alpha channel for layers in Photoshop either, it is built into the layer.
In the standalone version you can open an image, add transparency and save as PNG with transparency and the transparency will be included in the image, but not as a separate alpha channel, as you can see by opening such an image (output from standalone FF) with photoshop: the transparency is there, but not as an alpha channel. |
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Posted: September 11, 2016 1:40 pm | ||
ThreeDee
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Here's an image that starts out with no transparency. It is loaded into the standalone FF and transparency is added in FF. Then the image is saved as PNG with transparency from FF and finally the resulting PNG file opened in Photoshop with transparency intact. No alpha channel anywhere, yet transparency is there.
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Posted: September 11, 2016 1:46 pm | ||
graphics guru
Posts: 16 |
Okay, I can live with that. But what about this scenario. I am actually creating the image in FF standalone with no outside input. Let's say I am creating a Nebulae with the Nebulae Alpha Filter. So I create one in FF and save it with transparency checked as a PNG. Then when I open the PNG file in Photoshop, there is no transparency! In other words, the areas I thought would be transparent, like the black background are not! They are black. How do I get that transparency built into the PNG file like you guys are showing me?
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Posted: September 11, 2016 2:54 pm | ||
Rachel Duim
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What version/platform of Filter Forge do you use? I'll look into it, there might be transparency issues with PNG's in version 4, not sure, will post again after checking.
Math meets art meets psychedelia. |
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Posted: September 11, 2016 3:54 pm | ||
Rachel Duim
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I could not find an issue. Try this and let me know what happens. Get ThreeDee's excellent Polygon Fill. Use the default preset. Change the Background Color to have an Alpha value of 0 in the filter settings. You should see the grey/white checkerboard background. Then Save Image As (PNG). Make sure the Transparency checkbox is checked. Load the PNG into Photoshop. What do you see? If you see a black background, check the Preferences / Transparency settings. Make sure it is set to Light and not Custom.
Also, what version of Photoshop do you use? Also try viewing the PNG in another program for the heck of it. Don't know what else to suggest. Math meets art meets psychedelia. |
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Posted: September 11, 2016 4:28 pm | ||
graphics guru
Posts: 16 |
Okay,
I am using Photoshop CC 5.5 on a high end PC platform. I am using FF 5.0. I think that was an excellent suggestion about picking the background and setting the Alpha to 0. I have never seen this available before in a filter. It took a long time to save so I was excited, thinking it was calculating the transparency into the image. Unfortunately, when I opened it in PHotoshop, it still had the background embedded into the PNG! I am enclosing a couple of examples from some other filters that do the same thing despite checking the 'enable transparency' checkbox. I appreciate your help!!!!! ![]() |
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Posted: September 11, 2016 5:19 pm | ||
Rachel Duim
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Ah, most filters in FF default to the image as the background (this is an option when you build your filter). We're getting there...
![]() Solution: In FF 5, File / New Image Set it at 600x600, and set the Fill color with Alpha = 0 as you did before. Now you will have an image with the embedded transparency. This works since Polygon Fill has an Image (Color) input in the controls, the default preset has the Lifesaver with Use Transparency set. ![]() Math meets art meets psychedelia. |
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Posted: September 11, 2016 5:51 pm | ||
graphics guru
Posts: 16 |
Okay, you were on the right track, and this may solve the issue some of the time. But I said this in my very first email! I believe this is an issue that is not made clear at all, to not only the filter creators but to the End User. The Polygon Filter may have worked with the suggested method, but what about all the other filters that I use?? When an End User checks the Transparency button, they trust that the PNG will have transparency built into it in the correct places. They should not have to go through figuring out what the method is to get the expected result.
The reasons why I am going after this so thoroughly is this: 1.I have used FF since 1.0 and have always thought it was a revolutionary piece of software,and have supported it from the beginning. 2. I am a computer artist and have explored all venues of computer art for close to 30 years. 3. I have incorporated FF into my production workflow and want to see it improve constantly! I have been working with 6.0 and am already impressed with the speed of the 64-bit rendering on the PC platform. I think that FF should also look into (if they have not already) implementing OpenGl, and utilizing all the new hardware rendering technologies available on graphics cards of today. Anyway, thanks for your help and sticking with me to help me find better methods to achieve my graphics objectives!!!! Attached is the last file with the transparency, utilizing the method you prescribed. ![]() |
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Posted: September 11, 2016 11:46 pm | ||
Rachel Duim
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The last comment on the transparency discussion: You can think of the input possibilities as 2 layers if the filter you are using has an image (color) control. The "background" is the "main" file obtained from File / Open... (New or Recent or Built-in). Note that any of the Built-in files can be opened with Use Transparency. The Image (color) control is the "foreground" layer. This may all be obvious now, just thought I'd tie up loose ends.
I agree, FF 6 64 bit is a big improvement on the Mac side, some speed improvement, and a lot more stable, much less crashing. ![]() Math meets art meets psychedelia. |
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Posted: September 12, 2016 12:49 pm |
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