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Kraellin
Kraellin

Posts: 12749
Filters: 99
i've probably suggested this before, but it's been so long i dont recall. i'd love to see a cmyk assemble and extract.
If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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Sjeiti
sock puppet

Posts: 722
Filters: 71
I second that... just needed that today and couldn't find it
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StevieJ
Designer/Artist

Posts: 11264
Filters: 163
+3 .....would be handy for pre-print color separations.....
Steve

"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :)
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onyXMaster
Filter Forge, Inc.
Posts: 350
I don't think so.
Bad CMYK separation without proper color matching is no good for printing.
Good CMYK separation requires proper color matching with a target device profile, along with a proper separation setup (coating at least). While you can get away with the "RGB is almost device-independent, so let's slap on this sRGB label, or hell, just stick with gamma", you can't do the same stuff with CMYK -- it's the #1 device-dependent color space smile:)

On the other hand, if Vlad decides that some generic "CMYK" will do, it's very too hard to implement.
Please note that my previous statement does not imply that it will be implemented soon even if Vlad agrees that having "CMYK" splitter/combiner is a good idea -- you know what we're working on, right? smile:)
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Kraellin
Kraellin

Posts: 12749
Filters: 99
Quote
onyXMaster wrote:
you know what we're working on, right?


making us wait? smile;) smile:dgrin:
If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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Sphinx.
Filter Optimizer

Posts: 1750
Filters: 39
Extracting and assembling CMYK channels is really not that hard if you disregard color profile conversions ("Bad CMYK seperation"). But there is little use for it really, partly because of the device dependent nature, but mostly because FF do not support 5 channel composites (ACMYK).

I attached a small snippet that shows one way to extract/assemble CMYK channels - if you simply want to play around with intermediate CMY(K) channels and reassemble to RGB, its a good starting point.

The snippet is based on GIMP's internal conversion routines (really simple stuff).
There is an alternative assembly cluster that might be a bit more useful - it lets you select the cmyk dye to use when assembling (I included Adobe Working CMYK). I did not include a custom extract version though. Note that the GIMP cmyk -> rgb formula does a poor job converting cmyk input composed with key pullout > 0.

RGB _-_ CMYK.ffxml
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Sphinx.
Filter Optimizer

Posts: 1750
Filters: 39
Oh btw.. I made that conversion stuff for a raster dot offset print simulator something filter (cmyk extract -> raster dot stuff -> cmyk assemble), which is an example of when I'd find it useful to have cmyk extract/assemble components:

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onyXMaster
Filter Forge, Inc.
Posts: 350
Quote
On the other hand, if Vlad decides that some generic "CMYK" will do, it's very too hard to implement.


When I re-read my own post I found that I was going to say exactly the opposite -- "not too hard to implement" smile:)
Yes, generic CMYK splitting is easy stuff, sorry for making a strange typo "very too" instead of "not too". Also, I would like to not that to provide assemble/extract CMYK components, there is no need for us to support 5-channel operations in the UI. Inner workings of FF can work with unlimited number of channels with arbitrary meanings smile:)
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Sphinx.
Filter Optimizer

Posts: 1750
Filters: 39
Quote
onyXMaster wrote:
Also, I would like to not that to provide assemble/extract CMYK components, there is no need for us to support 5-channel operations in the UI. Inner workings of FF can work with unlimited number of channels with arbitrary meanings


Cool! Tell me more smile;) Are you saying that branches could run in 1 channel mode under certain circumstances, e.g. if 100% grayscale? Or 2 channel (alpha + gray)?
I was thinking about the way things seem to work now (ARGB based sample transfer), but perhaps there is more going on under the hood smile:)
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onyXMaster
Filter Forge, Inc.
Posts: 350
The pipeline between components is ARGB, yes (this can be changed, though a bit hard), but internally, FF supports pixel formats with arbitrary precision and number of channels (provided there are conversions set up in the code).
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Sphinx.
Filter Optimizer

Posts: 1750
Filters: 39
Quote
onyXMaster wrote:
The pipeline between components is ARGB, yes (this can be changed, though a bit hard), but internally, FF supports pixel formats with arbitrary precision and number of channels (provided there are conversions set up in the code).


Ok, yeah determining if a pipeline is truly grayscale (with or without alpha) could become a costly check. I'm simply thinking about the optimization possibilites here - you very often see 100% grayscale branches (not even alpha, or that is alpha = 1 constantly), which then at a later stage (e.g. near result) will utilize/modify (A)RGB indepently. Maybe if this should be supported, it could be via some component that forces gray or gray + alpha only processing in the successor chain until a ARGB mode component is introduced.

Oh btw Onyx. while I have your attention - did you see this topic: A few alpha channel issues..? Specially the alpha and blendmode issue is something I'd like to know the "status" of (i.e. has it been filed as a bug?)
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onyXMaster
Filter Forge, Inc.
Posts: 350
There is actually a "grayscale" pipeline, you know it as "curves" smile:) I don't think we're going to introduce separate grayscale support for map components though -- it might require a lot of fiddling with components themselves.

Sorry, can't tell about the status of this problem since I'm at home now and don't have access to the issue database.
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StevieJ
Designer/Artist

Posts: 11264
Filters: 163
Quote
onyXMaster wrote:
Bad CMYK separation without proper color matching is no good for printing.
Good CMYK separation requires proper color matching with a target device profile

Couldn't CMYK assemble/extract components be set up with color separation ranges for user control to match them???
Steve

"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :)
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saurabhgayali
Saurabh Gayali
Posts: 183
Filters: 84
Not just CMYK extract and assemble. We also need a color input component with CMYK enabled or only CMYK.
I want to make a filter to know which two colors should be mixed in watercolor to get the color you wish. But the inputs dont have CMYK at all.
saurabh.gayali@gmail.com
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