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Crapadilla
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IMHO, the Bomber needs the ability to specifiy Particle Pivot X/Y.

Why? Because sometimes you need very precise control over the way your particles spawn fr om a Chance map, and over how they transform when squashed or rotated.



<example> (see image below):

A forest of trees. I need the trees to grow fr om the Chance area (the red ellipse). Obviously, the particle pivot needs to be at the base of the tree - the ground - because that's usually the location a tree grows from. It also happens to be the point around which a tree should rotate and squash.

So, I like the density in the upper forest, but I don't like how particles spawn/squash/rotate etc. If I compensate for the hard-coded pivot by modifying the particle itself, it is reduced to a quarter of its original size. As a consequence, the visual density is reduced drastically. This effect can be seen with the lower forest.

Note that the Bomber in my example has its Density set to its maximum, and -- for artistic reasons -- I really do not want to introduce half-transparent particles by increasing Details and Roughness.

Obviously, the ideal solution would be to use the upper particle and just change the particle pivot to x=0.5/y=1.0!

Instead, if I don't want to loose particle density, I'd have to use an offset to shift the whole forest up to wh ere it really should have grown. And then the particles would still squash and rotate the wrong way, and not sit tightly on the edge of the Chance map.

</example>

Can't be to hard to implement this, now can it? smile:hammer: smile:loveff: smile:ff:

--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
Filters: 65
<example>

pt.2: Particle pivot and depth sorting

Below is an example of how the pivot can indirectly impact the "visual correctness" of depth sorting. Left side shows the particle with "pivot compensation", right side has the uncompensated particle. Depth Map is shown in the middle.

Note how Squash Chaos -- in combination with a wrong pivot -- can lead to a visually incorrect depth sorting, as shown on the right side.

This means the hard-coded pivot basically forces the user to compensate at the particle level!

Now, in this case we're lucky: Offsetting the particle did not lose us any particle size. But what if we wanted to use the full 0..1 coordinate area available for particles? Say we'd like to make the mountain twice as high? You guessed it: We can't. Lower half is off-limits or depth sorting will go crazy.

</example>

--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
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And here's how that super-tall mountain would look when bombed. Yup, can't offset our way around that one. The "visually incorrect" depth sorting is here to stay.

smile:|

Conclusion: Please don't force us to compensate for the hard-coded pivot at the particle level. Give us an option to tweak this in the Bomber itself.

--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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xirja
Idididoll Forcabbage

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+1

That's what I was noticing, as mentioned in your kingdoms thread. Until we can have a bomber/particles that take advantage of the unbounded 'Free' patterns, this would be nice.
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
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Quote
Until we can have a bomber/particles that take advantage of the unbounded 'Free' patterns, this would be nice.


A Particle map input always samples the coordinate area 0..1 in x and y. Sampling from a larger coordinate area (say 0..5) will not solve the problem presented above. Furthermore, I'm not sure it makes sense for a particle to be unbounded -- it has to be bounded by definition.

What's important here is the origin of transforms for operations like Squash, Squash Chaos, Rotation and Rotation Chaos -- i.e. the particle pivot. The problem is: it always sits at x=0.5/y=0.5.

In my super-tall mountains example, the mountains on the right side exhibit visually incorrect depth sorting because they are squashed from the x=0.5/y=0.5 origin when they really should be squashed from x=0.5/y=1.0.
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
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Side-note regarding 'unbounded' bombing:

You can already do this via Loop. Just transform each iteration randomly via offset/scale/rotate and subsequently blend it over the previous iterations. Each iteration would then see one 'unbounded particle' added in.
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
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Bump smile;)
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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CorvusCroax
CorvusCroax

Posts: 1227
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I heartilly agree, this would be an improvement to the Bomber.

In ye olden days, Kai's Power Tools was the only bomber-thing I had available. It had a couple of nice features that would be nice in FF, IMHO:

- You could specifiy sorting order: either top-down, left-right, the reverse, or by color input

- You could feed it an array of images, which you could selectively be driven by other controls (i.e. input color, or built in functions like wave or etc.) So, could have like 16 images, the Red input channel could select the row, and the Green Channel could select the column, for instance. (See attached image - the big array on the right is the particle chooser thing)


(Trivia: Some of these tools were programmed by the guys who later made ArtRage, and can be seen in their later incarnations there.)

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