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ALZHEM
Posts: 70
Filters: 11
Hey community and developers smile:)

I have used FF heavily in the past years for commercials and now I am trying to bring its power to the creation of cinematics. But even with the 64 bits update still feels super slow on certain nodes (specially bomber). Would it be possible to implement GPU acceleration on FF? I know it's a huge feature, not easy to do at all, but would help FF (and its loyal community) so much!

An example... right now I need to get 1 min of video (several layers per shot) looking like oil paint. I wanted to create my own filter but I can't afford the 1-5 min per frame that the typical FF artistic good-looking filter takes, so we ended up buying Topaz Impression for it. The results are very limited, but you can feel the GPU when it gives you the changes in realtime.

Could this be something to consider? And if not for the entire program, could it be used on certain slow nodes, like bomber? (similar to Nuke, that uses GPU acceleration on slow nodes as well)

Thank you all and happy Friday!
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Fernanda Pires
Fpires
Posts: 35
Filters: 17
That would be a dream come true.
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SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12298
Filters: 35
YES,!! This would be a huge dream come true and the most wished thing, being already used to that most of the others graphic software have already upgraded and accelerated they softwares and the only one that is not accelerated that I may know is FIlter Forge

Could also FF 6.0 be more faster in some way now that is 64 bit?


In this thread above there are many links with he same request as this thread and also a list of threads about this topic

it has been said all these time until now that it was not possible to make it GPU Compatible or OPENGL or OPENCL compatible as many other do, but do not know if now that it has been converted to 64 bit it could be possible in some way
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ALZHEM
Posts: 70
Filters: 11
Well... not possible... I would say maybe it's not easy to do, because programming almost everything is possible smile:)

CUDA or OpenCL would make the nodes run several times faster (same thing happened with Nuke and, for instance, its ZDefocus node), and that would be a game changer for FF and for how it is used. As I mentioned, in this project I am working right now we can't afford FF times, so we have to stick with something way less powerful smile:(
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GMM
Moderator
Filter Forge, Inc
Posts: 3491
This has been requested from the beginning of times. The forum search tools finds 108 posts contemplating on GPU rendering. We need to create a subforum called "Evergreen requests".
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SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12298
Filters: 35
Quote
GMM wrote:
This has been requested from the beginning of times. The forum search tools finds 108 posts contemplating on GPU rendering. We need to create a subforum called "Evergreen requests".


I agree that it has been one of the most requested features considering that already most of the other popular graphics software have
already made the change to accelerated preview already some time ago, some of them already 2 or 3 years ago

108 post related to GPU only in the feature wishlist part, because there is 285 GPU related posts if you search all over the forum

104 posts in reference to OPENGL

66 posts about CUDA This is only for Nvidia graphics cards

57 posts about OPENCL This is for any brand of graphics card that would be better I think

33 posts about REALTIME PREVIEW

46 post about HARDWARE ACCELERATED

500 posts about "speed rendering" or "render speed" both give same result

If I put in the search "FF Slow" it also gives curiously 500 posts

MAYBE NOT ONLY HARDWARE RELATED ACCELERATION

I have already suggested that the hardware acceleration may not be the only way to make FF faster

Also maybe another possible solution is to separate the preview from the final render engine

Could also FF 6.0 be more faster in some way now that is 64 bit?

Although all the above are related to hardware acceleration I think that maybe is not the ONLY possible solution, and it could be possible maybe in some way made a new way to render the preview separated from the main render engine, or modify the main render engine to be faster in some way
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Grimbly
Grimbly
Posts: 68
Lol, Evergreen Requests smile:)

I agree, FF could definitely use a GPU upgrade now that it has 64bit available. Coupled with my proposed node debugging tools/nodes we could make super huge, streamlined, efficient filters, and I feel like these 3 features would correctly align FF to move well ahead of all your competitors. With 64bit, GPU, and debugging abilities in place you can more freely expand the main node base and node categories at a much more accelerated pace and expand indefinitely on FF's entire feature set. Now that you've finally taken the plunge into the world of optimization it's only logical to take it all the way and finish setting up fully for the explosion of options all the optimization unleashes smile:)

Also, the ability to background render nodes in the editor might help on huge node graphs.
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ALZHEM
Posts: 70
Filters: 11
Quote
Grimbly wrote:
Also, the ability to background render nodes in the editor might help on huge node graphs.


Oh yeah!!! smile:banana:
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Skybase
2D/3D Generalist

Posts: 4025
Filters: 76
Damn, out of all this time I didn't even think about background rendering.
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Grimbly
Grimbly
Posts: 68
I'd say it would be helpful for it to operate on a per node basis similar to the new node setting locks so that in the end we can switch them in/out of background rendering individually, on selected nodes/node groups, and across the whole filter as a switchable and pre-selected default setting. If they were GPU rendered to top if off we'd be all set smile:)

Also, any sort of pre-allocation on the Ram or HD's that might help speed things up should be considered. In cases with very large images 10k+ on either side, it seems to allocate ram at a slow, trickled pace. That's not an insult nor is it unreasonable that it behaves this way. However, some of the jobs I would like FF to do will require 25GB+ of Ram. That's fine by me. I have 64GB so it's acceptable for FF to grab all that it needs. In these cases, I already know FF will need lots of resources before starting the render job, but FF apparently doesn't. I feel like it should. Then it can grab them all at once, and save a good bit of time right out of the gate on large projects. All those extra CPU cycles count and avoiding the whole Ram allocation handshake routine as many times as it looks like you could is bound to make a nice difference.
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ALZHEM
Posts: 70
Filters: 11
I agree. Probably is what you just said, but so many times I tried to filter a 10K image with an expensive filter and after 10 min nothing would have happen... (probably the RAM wasn't enough but we didn't get any warning about it). A bit of transparency would be appreciated, so we know if things are coming slowly or not coming at all smile:) (maybe our RAM is still not enough for a specific case)
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Grimbly
Grimbly
Posts: 68
Personally as far as transparency goes I'd like to see some readouts for each node and some node status indicators so I can see what it's doing, what conclusion it came to, or whether it's started working yet. General things like knowing the result of math applied within math node chains could be very helpful at times. Even things as simple as giving each node a 3 color indicator (red,yellow,green) could be helpful at times. But, knowing the internals of what the node is thinking would be more helpful in most cases. This could easily fall into the debugging node/tool set I was proposing earlier, and is another reason I was proposing it to begin with smile:)
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ALZHEM
Posts: 70
Filters: 11
Yeah smile:) Something like Nuke or Fusion would be awesome. The processed node is highlighted, so you can see how the flow goes and where it gets stuck
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LexArt
LexArt

Posts: 256
Quote
ALZHEM wrote:
But even with the 64 bits update still feels super slow on certain nodes (specially bomber


i agree that the new 64 bit does not bring much performance and FF still feel very slow, and considering that I have a slow iMac 2014 with intel core i5 650 that is not very fast, but other GPU based graphic software work very fast and well in my computer. And I do not have a very good graphic card either, so the thing is that the work of processing the image is shared by CPU and GPU

It would be very good and very helpful that FF 6 could support GPU

i have a Nvidia card but I think that OpenCL would be better than CUDA as it is for all the graphics cards and not only Nvidia

i have seen this comparison

CUDA vs OpenCL comparison
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Skybase
2D/3D Generalist

Posts: 4025
Filters: 76
btw I don't think iMacs have a decent GPU, even if the benchmarks coming in are significantly faster than the previous line. Within the scope of heavy-duty rendering, especially large image sizes, I don't think it performs as well. I wouldn't put high hopes at all.

[Edit] wording.
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SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12298
Filters: 35
Quote
Skybase wrote:
btw I don't think iMacs have a decent GPU


I do not know the performance of the iMacs GPU but the big problem is that you can NOT change and upgrade the graphic card, you are forced to keep the one that comes from the factory.

I think that in any case if there could be a GPU acceleration in whatever way it could be, it would be surely faster than how it is now FF with only CPU based processing
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Skybase
2D/3D Generalist

Posts: 4025
Filters: 76
Interesting fun fact: if you're on a Mac, you can run a GPU via thunderbolt2. You'll need to kinda hack your way to make it work but it's an excellent solution.

Lol everyone use Substance Designer and Unreal Shader editor if you want speed. Lolol. I'm kinda joking there. I just like to say that when ever there's a GPU feature request.
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LexArt
LexArt

Posts: 256
Quote
Skybase wrote:
btw I don't think iMacs have a decent GPU,


Is true that regrettably the iMacs are not built with powerful graphics cards, I think that it may be because of the heat, or for keeping price low, or for both, but although of course it can not be compared to the ones of PC, is not too bad, I have not had any problem or slow down on graphics software, and I do not play games, and with the optimized software for GPU it works well

Nvidia GeForce GTX 675M is the card is inside with 1GB Ram, I wanted to be sure that is nvidia so then I can use CUDA, OpenGL and OpenCL, I do not like AMD

Quote
SpaceRay wrote:
the big problem is that you can NOT change and upgrade the graphic card, you are forced to keep the one that comes fr om the factory.


Yes is true, is very bad that apple are not selling anymore upgradable computers and you must take much care when buying the mac computer as you will not be able to change anything later

Quote
Skybase wrote:
Interesting fun fact: if you're on a Mac, you can run a GPU via thunderbolt2. You'll need to kinda hack your way to make it work but it's an excellent solution.


oh! What a surprise! i did not know that this could be possible, I only knew that you can connect an external monitor to thunderbolt

I have found what you mean but is expensive to buy it 549$ for the box to install the graphic card that you must pay apart

you tube video showing external graphic card

And on the video there is a link to wh ere you can get it and shows the price

more information about this eGPU

And what is interesting is that you can use this also for a macbook or mac mini

Thanks Skybase for the news, although Is too expensive for me
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ALZHEM
Posts: 70
Filters: 11
Back to performance... I have also noticed in the past FF doesn't use the multithread capabilities of the computer to the maximum. I can imagine every node and flow is different, but so many filters show the CPU load to as little as 4%, 12%... while rendering, which indicates that not all the threads are being used. Getting it to use the 100% of the power would be as well a HUGE performance boost.

Happy weekend everyone!
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