FF Storefronts!!!

Like the Gallery, it would be an inexpensive enhancement that would "draw in" alot of people to set up shop and produce here. Server space is cheap....user-customizable storfont interface is cheap and easy in comparison to other planned enhancements.....and even though based out of FF servers, it can be set up so that all "transactions" are handled by users and their bank accounts.....so that FF would handle little to no overhead costs (other than to maintain server). Further, FF could easily set it up to be on a "per transaction" royalty basis without having any involvement (anything else to do) with the user/customer transaction.....

Doing something like this would:

1) Completely justify a EULA restriction placed on reselling straight texture results without author permission or compensation.....

2) Allow FF to use it as further reward incentives beyond the program reward points.....because alot of people want to sell their creations.....and an individual creating their own website/storefront would not do anywhere near the business in comparison to what could be done upon the traffic created by uniting stiorefronts here under one roof.....

3) Increased traffic to the storefronts would translate to increased sales of the program.....in addition to the money from per-sale storefront royalties.....

4) Then some better "re-investment" in the program can be done to enhance the program much faster.....allowing FF to charge more for the proram.....and this bad boy starts to really tap into its' true potential!!!

C'mon Vlad......worrk with me!!! LOL.....

I actually think a file management system just under the "My Filters" folder would be an easy one to do.....but I think evieryone would end up using it to file all the filters in the existing category folders.....thus breaking the filter link that is being used to read use statistics for the rewards program.....so I think the main problem is figuring out a way to be able to file filters without breaking those links.....

As you know, I've been making this "Storefront" suggestion for quite some time.....in principle, it's basically the same thing as what Second Life, Renderosity, etc are doing.....but FF can take much greater advantage of it in several other ways.....

I actually think doing something like Second Life is the way to go.....because half the draw for people would be the fun of creating it and making new things for it. People seem to love that part of it in Second Life.....lets people take great pride in what they have created.....while it would grow a draw of both author and customer traffic to this site that FF, as well as authors, would most certainly benefit from. Not to forget using it as a "golden carrot" award beyond the current program rewards.....in which FF would get truckloads more HU filters.....

Filter Forge: The Center of the Texture and Effects Universe!!! .....

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Kraellin wrote: patience grasshopper

Well, to be honest, I'm still thrilled with the "resource leak" looking like it is gone for good....but I don't want Vlad to get too comfortable..... LOL....

I kid from the left aorta.....the one that pumps love.....

Yeah, I've kinda got a feeling about what's going on here.....which is why I keep reiterating this low investment, low overhead, biggest-bang-for-the-buck Storefront suggestion.....and it would work fantastically to light a big fire under this and generate the $$$ needed to start moving it forward at warp speed, IMHO.....

um well I love the store front idea, plus it would be an extra form of income for the FF team. Renderosity and sites like that are making money hand over fist from people selling filter textures and images tweaked using filters.

Most of them sites take anything from 30% to 60% cut on the sales.

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StevieJ wrote: I would hope that FF wouldn't be that "gouging" about it.....maybe initially starting out with taking a 25% sales royalty.....then have some formula by which to lower their commission as an author sells more.....which would also act as an additional incentive for authors to do more and better quality work as well.....

From my perspective you are taking the path of overvaluing the art and undervaluing the marketing and organization. A few years back, the Clipart.com people opened a website named RebelArtist.com. The business model was that they had created the tools for artists to upload their work, keyword it, classify it, and price it. They even tied Clipart.com into it so that when a member of Clipart.com did a search, the results offered the option to view other results at RebelArtist.com.

Rebel Artist paid either 60% or 70% to the artist and lots of artists joined including my company.

What happened next was all sorts of abuses like flooding with Photoshop variations drowning out the unique work and lots of copyright infringements. From a buyer's perspective it was a nightmare because there was no uniformity of price or quality. There was also rather poor sales performance ... according to what the owner told me more recently, the best month Rebel Artist ever had was just over $10K gross which is a drop in the bucket compared to the tens of millions that Clipart.com does.

They eventually closed it.

By comparison, I have pretty much the same artwork for sale at Fotosearch.com. They only pay 20% but they are phenomenal at getting lots of buyers to spend huge amounts per image. By comparison their 20% returns me 400% to 500% more dollars than the 70% from Rebel Artist ever did.

As you go through life my child,
Whatever be your goal.
Keep your eye upon the doughnut,
And not upon the hole.

We are currently accepting artists with new, unpublished work to be offered at our new subscription website, DigitalArtNow.com that would be of interest to our subscribers. A royalty that is both practical and generous is offered.

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Genie wrote: You´re a persistent little fella, aren´t ya Stevie?

LOL.... Yes I am.....I want this program to take off and fly....

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Genie wrote: Why not work with filter makers and create themed packs that people could buy?

.....because Vlad would deliberately avoid my filters and just have Kuchobey do variants of them..... ..... LOL....

Seriously, good idea.....anything that helps bring authors "into the fold" is good!!!

I have to disagree that just doing author-grouped filter packs is a better idea than having a texture pack shopping mall of FF author storefronts. I truly believe that FF really needs something to get new and veteran authors to "set up shop" and continuously produce here. I don't think that filter packs would do anything to remedy the ongoing stagnation in filter submissions and quality.....as opposed to the new author influx, revitalization of veteran authors, increase in filter submissions and quality, and increase in customer traffic that would be produced with offering author-maintained/operated storefronts (also used as an ultimate reward level beyond the current program reward system).....

Fred, I can't argue with your business prowess.....that's for sure..... That's a nice system you have setup with DigitalArtNow.com ..... I was thinking that "acquiring" FF would be quite a compliment to what you have going on. Vlad made it clear to me that FF "was" not for sale.....but everyone has their price. FF would also be a nice addition to the Adobe family.....and could be that Vlad is positioning this program for just that purpose.....

Craig, we're definitely expanding into some areas we've new to like stock photography. The primary limit on my thinking is commercial application ... but that can be fairly broad. For example, a gorgeous photo of a pizza has more commercial applications than does a hedge of roses. But it's hard to prejudge what people will come looking for.

What we're specializing in is serving the needs of the wide format printers. That includes vehicle wraps, banners, larger mural types of work etc. But we're not trying to compete with sites like Fotosearch or Photos.com. Rather, it's an add on to what will primarily be about resource art such as textures used as part of a design.

That being said, right now my mind is fairly open. We have room for somewhere just under 100,000 images before we will either expand our capacity or prune out poor sellers. My suggestion to you is to send me a few examples that are representative of what you have and we'll talk.

What I was trying to say and didn't communicate very well with the pizza vs. roses was more based in my time spent selling "object oriented" clipart. Under the rules of that kind of offering, you get more customers looking for specific illustrations than you do for broader material. An illustration or a photo of a pizza will have more buyers than will a hedge of roses. By the same token, a single rose will also fare better than the hedge.

The same is largely true for the cutouts you mention. They are highly acceptable because they are 1) objects and 2) can be used as components in more design situations than can their unseparated originals. In addition, cutouts (or photo objects in my terminology) can be easily made into seamless textures.

As to sizes, with tiles we have adopted a 3600 x 3600 size as our standard. With photos, raster illustrations and photo objects, we have not adopted a standard and can only say that bigger is better . The buyers are the ones who will determine what isn't large enough and I doubt excellent work will sit unused because the size is less than some arbitrary standard.

As to what I am looking for, my preferences run towards things that are recognizable and that exist in the real world. If there is a tie in that is easily made to a type of commercial enterprise, it moves towards the top of my personal preference list. But at the same time, you will find without a lot of effort, work that does not meet that definition that is already available at Digital Art Now. I don't think most of it will be used as much as what I prefer ... but I would be delighted to be proven wrong.

Personally, I am pursuing seamless tiles made from photographic objects because my instincts tell me that these will be well received and will separate us from the rocks and sunsets etc. that are fairly common already.

It's always been difficult for me to answer artists as to what will sell. To me it is always going to be based on my own experiences as a sign maker combined with my experiences selling clipart and digital art ... but it is still very subjective and I am wrong enough of the time to not consider myself the last word by any means. So keep an open mind and I will too.

Here is a link to a collection that reflects my taste is content and treatment for a collection that would appeal to commercial sign makers. It was published over 10 years ago and the images still sell well both as a collection and as individual artwork at my ExpressClipart.com website as well as part of what we license to Fotosearch.com. Most of the images express a dramatized version of the subject and are quickly recognized by the viewer. Yet, to my surprise, the two best sellers in the collection are not what I thought they would be. One is a lighthouse and the other is a magic lantern.

The best thing anyone can do in life is what they both enjoy doing and what they do well.

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Kraellin wrote: hehe, i do understand the fickleness, or whatever we wish to call it, of the buyer/client/critic/etc Smile hmmm, all black and white and most likely vector(?). i do hardly any vector. i've only played with it in passing a tiny bit. but, i suppose that's a pretty big deal in sign making. seamless, fine, but vector, that may have to wait (from me, anyways). oh, and that reminds me, are you using any special software to do seamless, outside of FF, of course?

Yes vectors are very useful in sign making because they are what a vinyl cutting plotter requires for data to follow. These days, vectors don't get developed much because of the time involved and the badly eroded price they sell for. Our current development efforts are all channeled towards full color raster images.

For tiles, I use Filter Forge, Genetica 3, ImageSynth 2 and Photoshop. This one, for example, was done totally in Photoshop using two gold coins:

Now, if only I could get FF to take a page out of Fred's "business" playbook.....