Is there a way to MIX two component sources WITHOUT BLEND mode?

Hello,

I have been trying to mix two image results from a group of components, and I have found that there is NO component that would be able to mix two sources with EQUAL level of importance, and that one does NOT lead over the other, and is not converted into a battle of leadership.

For this I have found that there is the Blend, Multiblend, Checker and Switch components, BUT none of them gives the result I am talking about above.

The problem with them is that they are NOT neutral, and the result can´t be mixed in same equal parts.

In BLEND mode component, the is foreground and background, and the foreground is the most important over the background so it is not possible to mix them equally, and using the opacity is not the way, because then they become transparent, and is not what I want, I want to keep them at 100% opacity both.

In MULTIBLEND, happens something similar, when connecting one source to layer 7 and then another to another layer, the one in Layer 7 appears to be much more important than the other ones in the other layer, so it is not equal and do not have the same level of visibility and importance and distributed equally.

I tried CHECKER that is exactly what I want, that shows BOTH in the same level and at 100% opacity, BUT obviously this is NOT the solution because you have the SQUARES that make the checker board and so the mix is not made in a free way, is only enclosed in the squares.

The SWITCH is not a solution because then is ONE or another, so it not for mixing.

I thought also of BOMBER, but the source result ALREADY comes from two bomber component sources.

PLEASE CAN BE TWO SOURCES BE MIXED IN EQUAL PARTS USING A COMBINATION OF OTHER COMPONENTS ?

I mean like tap water, that you have cold and hot water, and mix both.

Thanks very much for your help

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Carl wrote: have you tried threshold?

No, I have not tried it, but I can try it and see what happens

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Carl wrote: sphinx did a filter that combines images

Yes ? Then I will see if I can find it.

As I said is not that I want to mix two images, is to mix two bomber components sources that should be shown equally from both ones, and none of them have a leadership over the other.

Thanks very much

What if you combined multiple blends, lets call your 2 sources A and B.

So first you blend with 100% opacity A on top of B
and the same with B on top of A
then you blend those two reults with 50% opacity on the top layer.

I tested it with some differnt colour and size checkers and at the second blend part the result is identical with either result on top.

And here is the second one

Now I will try to make the suggestions that you have already given and will see what happens.

Thanks very much for all your help

SpaceRay, other than the center of the flower, that is sometimes blue and some times yellow, is there any other difference between the two sources?

Sorry, that I did not answer before, but I wanted to put the result examples and try other ways to do it and test the things you have suggested here.

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Morgantao wrote: SpaceRay, other than the center of the flower, that is sometimes blue and some times yellow, is there any other difference between the two sources?

NO, the only differences are the center of the flower, because the color of the flowers all taken by the source image.

Although the could look very similar, they are NOT the same as both have slightly different variations and distribution.

By the way I have put now 4 different options for the centre of the flower, so it would be 4 center colors but the same petals colors.

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Carl wrote: Does that mean you want something along this thinking

Well, yes and no, I mean yes that I want to mix the main center color that are different and is right in your example, BUT ALSO I do not want to have any space between the flowers, so they must be mixed toghether and not as your example that there are empty spaces in between.

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Now I have put 4 bombers, with 4 different colors, and the result is the same, a messy as shown below in the screenshot attached. AND also as you can see the abslute leader is the green center, and the are a few blue, and very few violet, and much less yellow centers.

It also looks messy and dark because I needed to use the opacity sliders to be able to see the 4 colors in some way, but surely this is not the way to do it.

I have thought that I can reduce the bomber density from 2 that is now to 1, so I think the amount of flowers will be less from each bomber.

Thanks very much for your help

I can´t increase or decrease the repeat in Bomber because it scales the flowers up or down, so I can´t use this

I have put 6 bombers and used some blend modes in the middle to duplicate and flip the result and then used the multiblend to mix seven sources, but also the result is not good either as the colors of the original image are a not kept very well and there is even some blank spaces that can be still seen through the flowers so I will keep trying to figure out a way to do it better.

Although this is much better than the result I have put above, but surely I have made something wrong as this is supossed to be the ladybug built-in preview and is not possible that the petals in the green part could be brown-red I must have missed some "tint color" in bomber or made bad the blend mode or something.

Will check all and try again.

Sorry for bothering you all with this

Thanks very much

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Morgantao wrote: But make sure each bomber has a different number in the variation slider.

I am already sure, and have already configured each of the 6 bomber wih totally different variation numbers from 2000 value to 30000.

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Also, instead of having a green input to bomber 1, red input to bomber 2, etc, put all colors to bomber 1 (As particle 1, 2, 3...), and the same with the rest of the bombers.

Thanks for the suggestion, I have not though it in that way, and have not tried because I thought it would not be needed, but I will try to do it as you told me.

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Play with the particle chances so all the particles have equal dispersion on the image.

YES, you are right, this is something I have been thinking that if I can´t control the density or repeat controls, I CAN play and modify the chances sliders so all the particles fill the space and have equal distribution and do not cover themselves each other. Thanks.

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In any case, if you don't mind uploading the filter here in the forum, I can try and mess with what you have so far. Maybe it will make it easier for me to find a way to help you.

Well I do not mind to upload the filter here, but I am sorry that I would be ashamed to upload it in it´s current state as is really a mess and with lots of trials and not well done, and do not want that you have to clean it up to help me, BUT I will see if can make it better and prepare it for you. Thanks.

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Morgantao wrote: Don't worry about how messy it is, I only wanna mess with the bombers until I find a good solution. I promise not to look at the rest of the filter

Well I have cleaned and organized it a little for you so you can use it

I am sure that this is NOT the way to do it as I have seen in others filters that are better ways to do the same things, but I am just learning to do it.

This is the latest version, that has the flip version and using Multiblend

Paint Chips Flowers with Blend Modes only Multiplied and flip XY MULTIBLEND.ffxml

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SpaceRay wrote: MORE SIMPLE VERSION AND LESS MESSY AND COMPLEX

Too late, I already used your "Paint Chips Flowers with Blend Modes only Multiplied and flip XY MULTIBLEND" upload

I have attached my version of what you did, although I took away some of the things you had there.

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By the way, I have Two Bombers for each flower (one for the petals and another for the center of the flower) so really instead of 6, there are really 12! (really is 6 groups of 2 bombers)

Yes, that's the trick. This is what I did too.
The two important things to remember about the bombers here are:
1) Each pair has to have the same settings (Variation, Offset, etc.)
2) Each one of the pairs should have different settings than the other bombers.

If you have different settings within a pair, the centers won't align with the flowers.
If you have similar (or close) settings on two pairs, the bomber outputs will just sit on top of each other.
That's one of the problems you had here:

All Bombers had same offset (-75), so all the flowers were around the same spots.

Another important thing is the order of the Blends for each pair of bombers. You have to have the shadow of the flower below all, then the flower, then the shadow of the center, then the center itself.
You can see how I also used the same shadows in the Multiblend component, just to give it a little more depth between the layers.

I think from here you can add everything else you wanted in the filter, now that the bombers are in order.

SpaceRay Flowers.ffxml

Thank for the kind words, I enjoy helping whenever I can.

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SpaceRay wrote: I admire your skills and expert knowledge.

Let's not get carried away, I still look at the filters the real masters and experts here made and can't understand what the heck is going on in those...

nicely done Morgantao

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Morgantao wrote: Probably exactly the way I feel It's like looking at ancient south Indonesian peg writing to me...

Yes, you are right, I feel the same, BUT in an ancient writing you do NOT understand anything and do not know what it is, I feel like the the same that when you look to a car or aircraft engine, You see that there are lots of parts, and lots of connecting pipes and cables, but can´t figure out how each of the parts works, and you could not be able to make one of those motors yourself.

Aren´t this motors shown below like a complex Filter Forge filter ?

You know the result and what it does, BUT do not know HOW it works in the combination of the parts and why and how they are linked.

Would you be able to reproduce it and built yourself just from looking at how it is built ?
I do not think so until your learn engineering and mechanics

Please clik on the images to make them larger

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Morgantao wrote: I can look at basic filters like yours, and mine, and figure out how they work, and maybe improve them a little, just like you did with my filters (adding pictures and such).

Well, I also can look at very basic filters and see if I recognize some of the components, and if changing, modifying or adding something or taking out something could make a difference, as it happened with your ball pit filter, or with the Paint chips filter.

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Morgantao wrote: Maybe one day both of us will learn enough to really enjoy all the possibilities of FF filter making

YES, I agree, and wish that this comes true in a near future, at least to a level enough to do interesting and useful things, and know faster what to do and what is needed to make your idea become true.

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SpaceRay wrote: Expert definition: Taught by use, practice, or experience, experienced; having facility of operation or performance from practice; knowing and ready from much practice

[quote]

If you read again the EXPERT definition, what thing can you take out that will really make you to become an expert ?

Yes, PRACTICE !! To practice a lot and work a lot making filter is the way to learn and become a experienced creator.

So we will have to work and practice a lot to reach our goal of FF experts